Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

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candydog
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by candydog »

thelittleursula wrote: How would you change things then ?? Because I really like Anna standing up for herself and not letting Hans' bs get to her. If she was soft on him, then Hans could easily find it a free road into being terrible to her and Elsa again.

I really believe that if you are a abusive manipulator, male or female, you deserve a punch in the face, because mental abuse is terrible, and I really love and adore Anna for punching him. Favorite Disney Princess.
You are still missing my point entirely. I did not say Hans did not deserve it. I said a female character in the same situation would not have been punched.

Could you just answer me one question? Do you think that if the genders were reversed female Hans would have been punched by the male protagonist? Honestly? I'm not asking if you think she SHOULD have been punched, I'm asking if it would have happened.

That is the ONLY point I'm making. My point has nothing to do with who deserved what.
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by Elladorine »

candydog wrote:I said a female character in the same situation would not have been punched.
This is exactly right; whether it's serious or for comedic effect, female characters are rarely at the blunt of it.

It makes me think of the deleted sequence from the Be Our Guest song from Beauty and the Beast, when it was being sung to Maurice: his face is burned for comedic effect. In the final version targeting Belle, Cogsworth is the one getting burned.
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by thelittleursula »

candydog wrote:
thelittleursula wrote: How would you change things then ?? Because I really like Anna standing up for herself and not letting Hans' bs get to her. If she was soft on him, then Hans could easily find it a free road into being terrible to her and Elsa again.

I really believe that if you are a abusive manipulator, male or female, you deserve a punch in the face, because mental abuse is terrible, and I really love and adore Anna for punching him. Favorite Disney Princess.
You are still missing my point entirely. I did not say Hans did not deserve it. I said a female character in the same situation would not have been punched.

Could you just answer me one question? Do you think that if the genders were reversed female Hans would have been punched by the male protagonist? Honestly? I'm not asking if you think she SHOULD have been punched, I'm asking if it would have happened.

That is the ONLY point I'm making. My point has nothing to do with who deserved what.
You are missing my point too. I asked you, how would you change things ??

YES

If I was making Frozen and was Jen Lee, I would ask for male Anna ( Anders ? ) to punch that female ! Hans. But that's just me.
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by candydog »

thelittleursula wrote:
candydog wrote: You are still missing my point entirely. I did not say Hans did not deserve it. I said a female character in the same situation would not have been punched.

Could you just answer me one question? Do you think that if the genders were reversed female Hans would have been punched by the male protagonist? Honestly? I'm not asking if you think she SHOULD have been punched, I'm asking if it would have happened.

That is the ONLY point I'm making. My point has nothing to do with who deserved what.
You are missing my point too. I asked you, how would you change things ??

YES

If I was making Frozen and was Jen Lee, I would ask for male Anna ( Anders ? ) to punch that female ! Hans. But that's just me.
I didn't ask what YOU would do. I asked if you honestly thought a male character would be allowed to punch a female character in the same scene. Do you really think that a film studio would put such a thing in a movie, and do you think that audiences would be as accepting of it as they apparently were of Anna punching Hans?

As for how I would change things? Well there's a number of ways. I mean first of all, at this point in the movie Hans has been defeated. And also, let's be honest, Anna is back in the Kingdom, she's a Princess and her sister is the Queen. She could have taken the high road, risen above what Hans said and at the snap of her fingers she could have had him arrested by every guard in the palace. So there. That's how I would have changed it. She could have even told him to his face that he can't get to her anymore. Much classier than a punch in my opinion.
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by Fflewduur »

candydog wrote:
I didn't ask what YOU would do. I asked if you honestly thought a male character would be allowed to punch a female character in the same scene. Do you really think that a film studio would put such a thing in a movie, and do you think that audiences would be as accepting of it as they apparently were of Anna punching Hans?

As for how I would change things? Well there's a number of ways. I mean first of all, at this point in the movie Hans has been defeated. And also, let's be honest, Anna is back in the Kingdom, she's a Princess and her sister is the Queen. She could have taken the high road, risen above what Hans said and at the snap of her fingers she could have had him arrested by every guard in the palace. So there. That's how I would have changed it. She could have even told him to his face that he can't get to her anymore. Much classier than a punch in my opinion.
Well, this is all highly speculative...
Certainly the studio would be far less comfortable with the idea of a man punching a woman. It's just the way things are that male-on-female violence, domestic or otherwise, is more prevalent than its inverse, that the male of the species generally tends to be larger and stronger than the female, and that women have more to fear from the possibility and actuality of physical attack.


Anna doesn't seem the personality to take the classier/high road option--she's impulsive and impetuous; turning him over to the guards would be more in line with Elsa's character. Hans tried to kill her sister through imprisonment and further inaction, and--far more proactively--tried to strike Anna dead with a weapon, so deck in the nose is hardly a commensurate response in spite of its violence. Ultimately, though, these aren't real people: they're imaginary characters in a fictional narrative that allows for magical powers and living inanimate objects, all of it represented by computer-generated pixels and sprites. The real point is that this is *art*, a prime purpose of which is to provide emotional release through catharsis. We can argue for the rest of the year if it was *right* choice, but the creators felt that the unexpected and visceral choice was more likely to release the audience's accumulated tension. Hermione didn't *have* to punch Draco, either, but he was a conniving, slimy, dangerous little @$$hat, and he deserved it, so when that unexpected moment came along, we (or at least the vast majority of folks with whom I've seen the film) *laughed*. We want comeuppance, a satisfaction than justice is being served, and in both these instances the point is really far more about the indignity the villain must suffer than the physical violence.

But if a chick is a giant octopod creature or can turn into a dragon, it's perfectly acceptable to kill her outright. = )
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by MeerkatKombat »

Who hasn't got angry and wanted to deck someone?

Not saying it is the right response (but I think in Frozen, I can get behind Anna's impulse decision).
I'm not about to start punching my boyfriend in real life. I would hope people that watch it know the difference between cartoon violence and domestic abuse.
I think it was an impulse decision and he did get off lightly compared to other Villains. He did leave Anna to die/try to kill Elsa, not to mention the betrayal. Yes, If my boyfriend had lied about loving me, I probably would want to punch him.

That's all I'm adding.
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by Walter »

candydog wrote: I didn't ask what YOU would do. I asked if you honestly thought a male character would be allowed to punch a female character in the same scene. Do you really think that a film studio would put such a thing in a movie, and do you think that audiences would be as accepting of it as they apparently were of Anna punching Hans?
Only in the Seth Macfarlane universe, like in "Family Guy" and "American Dad". Outside of that, I don't see it happen in Disney and especially Hanna-Barbera (where I even notice that females are never the subject of physical comedy).
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by carolinakid »

I wouldn't hesitate to get physical with a man OR woman if it were in self defense. I wouldn't have minded if Philip had decked Maleficent or Eric had decked Ursula.
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by Disney's Divinity »

But Anna didn't punch Hans out of self-defense. His threat was already neutered when she punched him.

Even in the case of Ursula and Maleficent--who violence against during the end of their films wouldn't be wrong, since they are trying to kill others at those points--Disney takes the easy way out by making Maleficent a beast when she dies and Ursula was already pretty monstrous in design to begin with before she becomes a giantess. I doubt Ursula would've been killed the way she was if she had looked like Ariel, for instance. She probably would've died offscreen somehow (like the Evil Queen, who dies while she's a hideous, unrealistically exaggerated Hag similar to Ursula, btw) or been vaporized by the trident.

There is some "violence" against Yzma, but nothing that would really hurt a person. I think the difference is it's all taken for comic effect. (And she's unrealistically hideous, too, btw.)
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by thelittleursula »

candydog wrote:
I didn't ask what YOU would do. I asked if you honestly thought a male character would be allowed to punch a female character in the same scene. Do you really think that a film studio would put such a thing in a movie, and do you think that audiences would be as accepting of it as they apparently were of Anna punching Hans?
Yes

But a few soccer mums, hardcore feminists and " Disney = Satan " women would complain about it, though they moan about everything. Even's Elsa's ice dress.
carolinakid wrote:I wouldn't hesitate to get physical with a man OR woman if it were in self defense. I wouldn't have minded if Philip had decked Maleficent or Eric had decked Ursula.
lol same here.
Disney's Divinity wrote:But Anna didn't punch Hans out of self-defense. His threat was already neutered when she punched him.
Disagree, it seemed like he ways trying to make his actions justified and if Anna was naive enough to listen, he would of easily got within Anna's head, as most abusers do. Plus he was getting mighty close to her, like he still loved her like a real lover. It wasn't physical, but was for sure mental.
candydog wrote: let's be honest, Anna is back in the Kingdom, she's a Princess and her sister is the Queen. She could have taken the high road, risen above what Hans said and at the snap of her fingers she could have had him arrested by every guard in the palace.
Now that you mention it, Anna could of easily done this during the betrayal scene, just shout " GUARDS " while the door was still open, and Hans would of been fu*ked

D:
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by thedisneyspirit »

I thought it was way too comedic for the ending of a "serious" Disney villain.

Honestly, if this had happened to Hades, Prince John or Captain Hook, it'd would've fit in perfectly. But Hans is shown to be "serious" villain once he's unmasked, and this scene comes right after the most "emotional" moment of the film...It feels forced.

Imagine if in Hunchback instead of Frollo falling to his doom, Quasimodo defeats him by taking his pants off in front of everyone. Yeah, that's how the scene feels to me.
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by Mooky »

I think a more fitting response from a storytelling point of view would be Anna saying, "Oh, Hans. If only there was someone out there who loved you. Guards, take him away." then cut to his surprised/angry face. But I don't really mind her punching him, clichéd as it may be.
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by thelittleursula »

thedisneyspirit wrote:
Imagine if in Hunchback instead of Frollo falling to his doom, Quasimodo defeats him by taking his pants off in front of everyone. .
Can somebody please fanart this ? :lol:
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by Old Fish Tale »

Mooky wrote:I think a more fitting response from a storytelling point of view would be Anna saying, "Oh, Hans. If only there was someone out there who loved you. Guards, take him away." then cut to his surprised/angry face. But I don't really mind her punching him, clichéd as it may be.
Now that would have been better.
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by Atlantica »

Old Fish Tale wrote:
Mooky wrote:I think a more fitting response from a storytelling point of view would be Anna saying, "Oh, Hans. If only there was someone out there who loved you. Guards, take him away." then cut to his surprised/angry face. But I don't really mind her punching him, clichéd as it may be.
Now that would have been better.
Was just about to post the same thing, I love that idea :up:
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by unprincess »

I just dont like it b/c its such a lame cliche, it was lame in Harry Potter too. :|
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by Disney's Divinity »

Funny, it was one of my favorite moments from Harry Potter. But I think it's more of a rational-character-loses-their-shit cliche in that case.

This violence topic is difficult. It's just that I see candydog's point and I think it's 100% true, but as hypocritical as it is, the female-on-male violence just doesn't bother me as much (at least, not when the male is an antagonist anyway) even though I know a man doing the same thing to a female antagonist would totally creep me out.

*tangent ahead* I know I posted before at some point about how watching the deleted scene of the original Ursula battle disturbed me just because of hearing a female voice screaming after she's been stabbed, even though I know rationally that the death itself was deserved since she'd been trying to kill several people. But thinking about it more, there is a lot of violence against Ursula actually that she doesn't instigate in retrospect. Ariel is the first to attack her because she's upset and then Eric tries to harpoon her when she hasn't even done anything except defend herself. The only way I can rationalize this is that Ursula had to die because otherwise she'd probably end many innocent lives with all that power.
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by Disney Duster »

When Ursula pointed the trident at Ariel and said "Contract or no contract I'll-" she might have intended to kill her, and Eric couldn't take that chance.
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by ajmrowland »

So, has the gross been adjusted for inflation yet?
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Re: Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

Post by rodis »

ajmrowland wrote:So, has the gross been adjusted for inflation yet?
I think the most accurate way to measure a film's success is by the number of tickets sold. Admittedly, it's trickier nowadays with the surcharge for 3D, but still, it gives us a good indication.

And judging by that, Frozen (just over 49 million tickets) is still trailing behind Aladdin (52 million), Finding Nemo (56 million) and The Lion King (almost 75 million).

Of-course, I'm not taking into account the older classics, since they were re-released endlessly.
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