Once Upon a Time (ABC TV Series)

[Disney's Divinity]

I was completely with Mary Margaret when she told him to get out. Prince Charming or whatever his name is, is a serious douchebag, in just about everything he's done on the show so far. At this point, I hope Snow gets a better love interest.

[MuMu2099]

I just finished watching the Mad Hatter episode, and I have to say I think it was the best episode yet! Also, I am stoked that we are finally propelling towards the season finale!

[Tae]

My first thought after watching was, if the writers were planning to set up August and Emma as a couple... I don't think they're going to have much luck after this episode. While I think the idea of them together is a little disturbing, Jefferson had more chemistry with Emma then August could ever hope to.

Now, as to the episode itself, it's definitely 1st or 2nd in my top three. My only issue was some of the Wonderland shots; the scene with the caterpillar, and the beheading of Mad Hatter, really looked bad. I wish the show had a larger budget, it's scenes like that that keep it from reaching it's full potential
Otherwise, though, it was wonderful. Mad Hatter was perfect, and I'm exited that Emma is beginning to question things. The season is getting good; I'm exited for next week's episode

[slave2moonlight]

Great episode, and I was excited to see an "Oz" door in that room full of doors within Hatter's hat-portal. I wonder where the other doors lead. Could one be Neverland? And I wonder if Alice only ended up going to Wonderland instead of somewhere else because that was the door she happened to walk through...

[singerguy04]

Great episode, and I was excited to see an "Oz" door in that room full of doors within Hatter's hat-portal. I wonder where the other doors lead. Could one be Neverland? And I wonder if Alice only ended up going to Wonderland instead of somewhere else because that was the door she happened to walk through...

I noticed the Oz door too! I think this door opens up new ways to get to more Disney properties. There was a red door with a bunch of golden knobs, which looks Chinese. That could segway to a Mulan episode. I could definitely see this going into Neverland.

[Disney Duster]

What a great episode! But I totally knew Emma was not going to believe that guy. It would have so gone against her character. I just don't get why she mentioned wnating to believe she's her mother if she wasn't planning on giving in to the guy. Must've just been to make us think she was gonna believe him. She got so emotional...just for her to not believe him. Was she crying because she was scared? But she was planning on hitting him...he didn't have a gone anymore...what?!

But the surprise at the end was great! I didn't know she was supposed to get with Austen, but she kind of did have chemistry with that guy.

There was a red door with a bunch of golden knobs, which looks Chinese. That could segway to a Mulan episode.

Yea. Cause China is a fictional magic land just like Oz and Neverland.

[Tae]

There was a red door with a bunch of golden knobs, which looks Chinese. That could segway to a Mulan episode.

Yea. Cause China is a fictional magic land just like Oz and Neverland.

I believe the writers have confirmed they want to have Mulan on the show.

[slave2moonlight]

I thought Mulan was a real person though, or at least believed to be? I would think it would be a little odd having potentially real people, like Mulan or Robin Hood... Then again, I could maybe see Robin Hood... I don't recall what the deal is with King Arthur being based in reality...

[Tae]

I thought Mulan was a real person though, or at least believed to be? I would think it would be a little odd having potentially real people, like Mulan or Robin Hood... Then again, I could maybe see Robin Hood... I don't recall what the deal is with King Arthur being based in reality...

I'm not a huge fan of the idea of Mulan being added, but I'm pretty sure there was an interview where the writers said they'd like her in the second season; Rapunzel and Peter Pan were mentioned too.

[Disney Duster]

I'm fine with the idea of King Arthur or Robin Hood being in Fairy Tale Land by way of them wandering in to Fairy Tale Land. Same with Mulan. But what isn't fine is saying China is actually a fictional place you need to enter through a magic door in a hat.

By the way they need to give Fairy Tale Land a name, unless they're supposed to all be seperate kingdoms in the past, real life...?

Didn't the Mad Hatter say he'd been living in Storybrooke for 20 years though? So it doesn't sound like he could have come from a real long ago history.

You know I'm surprised we didn't see the Mad Hatter rabidly having tea with the talking animals and Alice showing how he's doing it because he misses Grace and maybe even mistakes her for/makes himself believe she's Grace.

My only issue was some of the Wonderland shots; the scene with the caterpillar, and the beheading of Mad Hatter, really looked bad. I wish the show had a larger budget, it's scenes like that that keep it from reaching it's full potential

Yes. Wonderland's CGI was the absolute most painful yet. A bigger budget, better effects, some better designs, less messing with the original fairy tales, and some better more reasonable writing would make this show reach its full potential.

[Tae]

My only issue was some of the Wonderland shots; the scene with the caterpillar, and the beheading of Mad Hatter, really looked bad. I wish the show had a larger budget, it's scenes like that that keep it from reaching it's full potential

Yes. Wonderland's CGI was the absolute most painful yet. A bigger budget, better effects, some better designs, less messing with the original fairy tales, and some better more reasonable writing would make this show reach its full potential.

I agree with everything else you said, but I really have no problem with their 'messing up' the original fairy tales. Their takes on Cinderella and the genie, for example, weren't great, but I thought they have/are doing a wonderful job on Little Red Riding Hood, Beauty & the Beast, and Snow White; I like not knowing what's coming next. If I wanted to see the tales in their original forms, I'd watch the Disney movies or read the Grimm books.
Plus, there's already several important characters who's actors are finding other work; Belle, Mad Hatter, Sydney. If they kept in every single character from the source material, that would be a much bigger problem.

[singerguy04]

I'm fine with the idea of King Arthur or Robin Hood being in Fairy Tale Land by way of them wandering in to Fairy Tale Land. Same with Mulan. But what isn't fine is saying China is actually a fictional place you need to enter through a magic door in a hat.

Yea. Cause China is a fictional magic land just like Oz and Neverland.

First of all, if you had payed attention to the hatter episode you would have noticed the whole multiple dimension monologue he talked about, if the multiple doors inside the hat wasn't a dead give away. Wouldn't this suggest to you that there are many different dimensions outside of european fairytales?

Second, I didn't say it was a door to China. It would be a door to Mulan's world, which is a fairytale at the point no different than Cinderella and Snow Whites. True, Mulan is based on a real person, but her legend has out lived the actual person so much that historians aren't even sure what is true or false about her legend. For me, that's why Mulan is easier to accept as a fairy tale than the likes of Pocahontas. This same argument goes for Robin Hood, King Arthur, and recently even Hercules (over the past few years many believe that the legends of Hercules may have indeed been based on a real man).

Third, your arguement against using China as a setting is extremely flawed. ALL of the fairy tales used in the show right now are based on European culture, fashion, design, and setting. Why would using an asian setting be any different.

[Disney Duster]

I really have no problem with their 'messing up' the original fairy tales. Their takes on Cinderella and the genie, for example, weren't great, but I thought they have/are doing a wonderful job on Little Red Riding Hood, Beauty & the Beast, and Snow White; I like not knowing what's coming next. If I wanted to see the tales in their original forms, I'd watch the Disney movies or read the Grimm books.
Plus, there's already several important characters who's actors are finding other work; Belle, Mad Hatter, Sydney. If they kept in every single character from the source material, that would be a much bigger problem.

I said less messing with the fairy tales. Like you, I think one good thing is that they aren't exactly like the originals and we don't know what's coming next, but some of the things they do, they don't have to, and they make it hard to take these as the actual characters that would give the show a feeling of legitimacy/woah cool that's the fairy tale character I know! Things like merely waiting for Rumplestiltskin to take the wand after the godmother does her magic and make the deal with Cinderella at the ball would be less messing, and be better. In fact Cinderella looked stupid for taking the deal after seeing him murder her godmother.

First of all, if you had payed attention to the hatter episode you would have noticed the whole multiple dimension monologue he talked about, if the multiple doors inside the hat wasn't a dead give away. Wouldn't this suggest to you that there are many different dimensions outside of european fairytales?

Second, I didn't say it was a door to China. It would be a door to Mulan's world, which is a fairytale at the point no different than Cinderella and Snow Whites. True, Mulan is based on a real person, but her legend has out lived the actual person so much that historians aren't even sure what is true or false about her legend. For me, that's why Mulan is easier to accept as a fairy tale than the likes of Pocahontas. This same argument goes for Robin Hood, King Arthur, and recently even Hercules (over the past few years many believe that the legends of Hercules may have indeed been based on a real man).

Third, your arguement against using China as a setting is extremely flawed. ALL of the fairy tales used in the show right now are based on European culture, fashion, design, and setting. Why would using an asian setting be any different.

Funny, I never heard the hatter say the words "european fairy tales" but anyway, the reason the fairy tales in this show are different from China is because all these tales are taking place at the same time, with costumes that cross different time periods. It's very obviously fantasy and could all be a fantasy world as opposed to real France or real Germany. But Mulan is not set in a fantasy Chinese place - she's supposed to be a real girl set in China. If they do a fantasy version of China, then I suppose I could see that, but then, even if her China is some fantasy-real place amalgamation, neither China nor fairy tale land/the fairy tale kingdoms are like Oz, Neverland, or Wonderland. Oz, Neverland, and Wonderland don't take place in any fantasy version of a real country like France, Germany, or China. Do you get me now?

[slave2moonlight]

First of all, if you had payed attention to the hatter episode you would have noticed the whole multiple dimension monologue he talked about, if the multiple doors inside the hat wasn't a dead give away. Wouldn't this suggest to you that there are many different dimensions outside of european fairytales?

Second, I didn't say it was a door to China. It would be a door to Mulan's world, which is a fairytale at the point no different than Cinderella and Snow Whites. True, Mulan is based on a real person, but her legend has out lived the actual person so much that historians aren't even sure what is true or false about her legend. For me, that's why Mulan is easier to accept as a fairy tale than the likes of Pocahontas. This same argument goes for Robin Hood, King Arthur, and recently even Hercules (over the past few years many believe that the legends of Hercules may have indeed been based on a real man).

Third, your arguement against using China as a setting is extremely flawed. ALL of the fairy tales used in the show right now are based on European culture, fashion, design, and setting. Why would using an asian setting be any different.

I was about to say this too (part of this, I mean). Yes, Duster, if you have a hat with many doors to other realms, they don't all have to be realms we consider unreal. The fact that doors to Neverland, Wonderland, and Oz are in this hall of doors does not mean that all the doors have to lead to places like that. The idea in the show is that they are doors to different dimensions, and one door could even lead to our world. And, in this show, Neverland and other such places AREN'T imaginary, they are just part of the multiverse, like us. Hatter basically explained this.

While I agree with you on that though, singerguy, I think it's a stretch to bring Mulan in as a "storybook" character, since that's what the show is supposed to be about. I can buy the idea of a door in that room leading to China, or leading to a storybook version of China, or even a storybook version of China existing in the same world as Belle, Snow White, etc... (if it's a parallel dimension, those lands may still be divided up and named similarly to ours), my only issue (not that I would altogether mind or care if she is included) is that Mulan is not a storybook nor a fairytale character. Just as you say, it would be weird to bring in Pocahontas, I feel the same about Mulan, even if her story is so little known. Is it confirmed that she did exist? If she didn't, then maybe, but her story is so set in reality, that it is a bit odd. There is no magic in it that Disney didn't add in the original version, is there? I'd say, if they use Mulan (and include some magic), then they definitely are just doing a show about Disney characters, ha. It's fine by me, but then they might as well make Robin Hood a talking fox. Seriously, that would be cool. Anyway, I CAN see them do Arthur, since that story is heavily full of magic and is in a storybook or too. I guess Robin Hood as well, since it's so fanciful and most of us grew up with him being a talking fox, ha, but I don't know, Mulan still falls in with Pocahontas for me. But, maybe we will see Pocahontas too. Maybe they will come from a realm that is more realistic but more about "legends". I suppose it is possible.

[singerguy04]

No one knows for sure if Mulan actually existed. She's a part of the folk-lore from ancient China. The story has been passed down generation to generation, but she is as much as a legend from China as Paul Bunyon or Johnny Appleseed are to us in the United States now.

That's why I can imagine she would exist in some realm that is China themed. If that's the case, they could have some sort of cross over into that realm. It wouldn't be any less believable than the evil queen from Snow White entering Wonderland.

[Disney Duster]

I already explained how yes, it would be less believable.

Look, sure, they could do a fantasy version of China realm, entered through a magic hat, when for some reason the fairy tale lands are entered without a magic hat, but I have well explained how that would just continue to be bad, inconsistent, not sense-making writing again.

Anyway, doesn't anyone wonder how Emma got Mary Margaret back into the cell before Regina came when, correct me if I'm wrong, it was already starting to ring 8 o' clock. Was she not that far away? When she was looking out, was it just at the clock or the sheriff's station and jail cell?

[slave2moonlight]

I don't remember the part you're talking about, Duster, but back to the Mulan thing, I'm going to have to agree with singerguy04 on this. I am not sure how you view the portals/parallel dimension stuff, but there is nothing unreasonable about one door leading to Neverland and another to the main fairytale realm we've been following, and another leading to our world, and others leading to other worlds similar to ours or more similar to those. And just because the hat and its hall of doors is one way to enter these realms doesn't make it the ONLY way. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make that makes it different or illogical, or less believable or inconsistent. In what way is it so?

As for Mulan being based on a real person, I couldn't remember the details on that, but if it's that vague on whether or not she is a real person or not, then I guess that does put her in the realm of Robin Hood and others like that at least. Though, I don't know if that makes her a "storybook character". Is she considered a storybook character in China? I wouldn't really consider Pecos Bill or Paul Bunyan "storybook characters", just "tall tales and legends". I only know of such character because of the Disney cartoons, really, ha. I wonder if these characters belong in this show, but... again, I can't say I would mind it or anything.

[tsom]

80% of people wouldn't know if Mulan was a real character or not. Shoot, even people I know didn't know The Little Mermaid was actually a fairy tale before becoming a Disney movie. So, I think it would be okay if Mulan showed up eventually. I mean if they did a Frog Prince story, I honestly expect the heroine to be black but not from the 1920s.

I thought the Wonderland CGI looked good. Then again, I'm not highly critical and just enjoy the show for what it is. I think the show is perfect the way it is.

[slave2moonlight]

I thought the stuff like the grass in Wonderland could have been better, but I didn't think it was intolerable CGI entirely (the caterpillar was fine with me). But, I think they did the scale thing weird. Everything in Wonderland was scaled to as if the humans were all shrunk already. As in, the Caterpillar was the same size as the Queen and all, and the mushrooms and grass, all giant sized...

Anyways, I agree with you, tsom, about how the Princess in a Frog Prince story would likely be handled. She'd probably be part of the... medieval-ish fairytale realm, but she'd probably be a black princess named Tiana. Works for me.

[Tae]

I really have no problem with their 'messing up' the original fairy tales. Their takes on Cinderella and the genie, for example, weren't great, but I thought they have/are doing a wonderful job on Little Red Riding Hood, Beauty & the Beast, and Snow White; I like not knowing what's coming next. If I wanted to see the tales in their original forms, I'd watch the Disney movies or read the Grimm books.
Plus, there's already several important characters who's actors are finding other work; Belle, Mad Hatter, Sydney. If they kept in every single character from the source material, that would be a much bigger problem.

I said less messing with the fairy tales. Like you, I think one good thing is that they aren't exactly like the originals and we don't know what's coming next, but some of the things they do, they don't have to, and they make it hard to take these as the actual characters that would give the show a feeling of legitimacy/woah cool that's the fairy tale character I know! Things like merely waiting for Rumplestiltskin to take the wand after the godmother does her magic and make the deal with Cinderella at the ball would be less messing, and be better. In fact Cinderella looked stupid for taking the deal after seeing him murder her godmother.

Ah, sorry, I must have misread your post a bit.
I see what you mean about the fairy godmother; not sure I totally agree, but then again, Cinderella was never my favorite tale so I'm probably not in a position to argue, haha.

I thought the Wonderland CGI looked good. Then again, I'm not highly critical and just enjoy the show for what it is. I think the show is perfect the way it is.

Normally I can overlook problems with the CGI, and on second viewing the caterpillar scene looked a little better, but I still can't get over the beheading sequence. I saw the last fight scene ahead of time, the one where Jefferson's scar was revealed, and I was expecting the actual beheading to be dramatic and intense; in actuality, it felt way too cartoon-y and ridiculous.