DVDizzy Forum

BTW, funny how the cub changes sexes between TLK a TLK2.

Am I the only that saw male cub (because of the color used) in the end of the first film?

Also, so what that Simba had a daughter? Yes she´s "a princess" . But, on the lion´s world the important one is the male.

DC Fan wrote:BTW, funny how the cub changes sexes between TLK a TLK2.

Am I the only that saw male cub (because of the color used) in the end of the first film?

Also, so what that Simba had a daughter? Yes she´s "a princess" . But, on the lion´s world the important one is the male.

I don't remember the movie specifying what gender the heir had to be.

Cheshire_Cat wrote:

DC Fan wrote:BTW, funny how the cub changes sexes between TLK a TLK2.

Am I the only that saw male cub (because of the color used) in the end of the first film?

Also, so what that Simba had a daughter? Yes she´s "a princess" . But, on the lion´s world the important one is the male.

I don't remember the movie specifying what gender the heir had to be.

I talk about the fur.

Simba´s fur when cub was orange (the same way Mufasa and him were as adults).

The same color was used with Simba´s cub at the end of The Lion King.

But then, at the beginning of Lion King 2 we see that Kiara´s fur is cream; her color and that of the lionesses.

Simba:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... 88df50.png

Simba´s cub at the end of Lion King:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... 6fc273.png

Kiara at the beginning of Lion King 2:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... e420d5.png

DC Fan wrote:

Cheshire_Cat wrote: I don't remember the movie specifying what gender the heir had to be.

I talk about the fur.

Simba´s fur when cub was orange (the same way Mufasa and him were as adults).

The same color was used with Simba´s cub at the end of The Lion King.

But then, at the beginning of Lion King 2 we see that Kiara´s fur is cream; her color and that of the lionesses.

Simba:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... 88df50.png

Simba´s cub at the end of Lion King:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... 6fc273.png

Kiara at the beginning of Lion King 2:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... e420d5.png

Sounds like a simple ret-con.

DC Fan wrote:

I talk about the fur.

Simba´s fur when cub was orange (the same way Mufasa and him were as adults).

The same color was used with Simba´s cub at the end of The Lion King.

But then, at the beginning of Lion King 2 we see that Kiara´s fur is cream; her color and that of the lionesses.

Simba:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... 88df50.png

Simba´s cub at the end of Lion King:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... 6fc273.png

Kiara at the beginning of Lion King 2:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... e420d5.png

Double post alert.

I don't think the song is out of the place in the movie, and actually don't mind the film's version of the song.

Still not a fan of it, though a lot better than the Elton John version, which I think, is terrible and annoying.

Disney's Divinity wrote:This is what I was thinking as well. They could’ve still ended the movie with his child being held up, because the audience would assume that he’d got with one of the lionesses. As it is, Simba and Nala didn’t seem so much in love, but that she was in heat.

She could of been in heat; but I got the feeling and emotion that it was more " Absent makes the heart grow fonder " as she was apart from Simba for a couple of years ad she missed him, assumed that she was dead and it was just emotions and feelings taking over and finally seeing Simba again.

Disney's Divinity wrote: As an aside, I find it sad that the two female characters in this movie are just a means to an end (baby), not really characters. Their attempt to make Nala seem empowered was fake feminism in the same vein as Jasmine’s “I’m not a prize to be won.” I'm surprised that TLM and B&tB have got more complaints than Aladdin and TLK in that regard. I've found female characters are often portrayed negatively (or just absent) moreso in films that are usually considered "for boys." What's sad is there are usually more male characters than female characters even in films designated "for girls."

I don't really like or enjoy how Nala was basically a item for the male character but she wasn't really incredibly sexist. She is stronger than Simba and more level headed and responsible and the voice of reason. Hell Nala would of made a ten times better ruler than Simba and could of fought Scar for the throne but it has to be a male Lion sigh. You could argue that it's not how Lion's work but how many Lions do you see going around singing " I can't wait to be King " ?!


The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast complaints are a little stupid. Beast gives Belle a chance to leave to go and see her Father and I think if there wasn't wolves around his kingdom then he would of let Belle escape from his kingdom after yelling and screaming at her in the Rose Room. Domestic abuse is not letting the women leave the relationship what-so-ever.

Ariel loved Eric even before the gamble she made with Ursula so all the complaints that she " sold her soul for a man " is not really all that true. She did it to be human mostly and Eric was just something else to sweeten the deal, like when you go to Mc Donalds and get a free Chicken Nugget. Ariel originally wanted a 10 pack of Chicken Nugget but she got 11 Nuggets instead. She didn't go to Ursula for the " Extra Chicken Nugget "

I'm sleepy so I hope that this makes sense.

Yes, Nala was in heat.

DC Fan wrote:

Cheshire_Cat wrote: I don't remember the movie specifying what gender the heir had to be.

I talk about the fur.

Simba´s fur when cub was orange (the same way Mufasa and him were as adults).

The same color was used with Simba´s cub at the end of The Lion King.

But then, at the beginning of Lion King 2 we see that Kiara´s fur is cream; her color and that of the lionesses.

Simba:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... 88df50.png

Simba´s cub at the end of Lion King:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... 6fc273.png

Kiara at the beginning of Lion King 2:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... e420d5.png

I think they intended the cub to be a boy, so the circle of life would continue... A king is born
at the beginning of the movie and a king is born at the end of the movie...

But since it was never mentioned that it was (as far as we interpret it to be) a boy cub, it doesn't really matter that it was later changed to a girl...

But yeah I also see it as a boy for the same reasons as you.

thelittleursula wrote:
Ariel loved Eric even before the gamble she made with Ursula so all the complaints that she " sold her soul for a man " is not really all that true. She did it to be human mostly and Eric was just something else to sweeten the deal, like when you go to Mc Donalds and get a free Chicken Nugget. Ariel originally wanted a 10 pack of Chicken Nugget but she got 11 Nuggets instead. She didn't go to Ursula for the " Extra Chicken Nugget "

Love that analogy. Except Eric's a hot piece and chicken nuggets are all fat.

Going along with what I said about Nala and Sarabi being a means to an end, I have never thought the baby would be anything other than male. Since he symbolizes the continuation of the circle of life, he must be a male that will take over when Simba dies (since women mean nothing in this worldview).

As I'm writing this, it occurs to me that it reads like I hate the movie, but I really don't.

DC Fan wrote:Yes, Nala was in heat.

Usually, Disney movies are more open to criticism when the film stars a female lead than a male lead. Apparently female characters are held in a higher standard than their male counterparts, and their actions are criticized more than anything the male characters could ever do. Half of it would be bc female characters are often pressured to be role models whereas males often aren't.

It is true that the romance is very shoe-horned in in this story. They just meet, fall in love in seconds, have a love song, have sex, and after that they're suddenly fighting? The sex didn't please them then.

It is true that there's a bigger percentage of males than females in Disney films, no matter the lead's gender. Though I'd make the case that although films like Brave or Beauty and the Beast have more male chars. than females, at least the female character are written beyond their extention with their own doubts and problems. Unlike in films like Aladdin or TLK where the female's just a goal for the male characters to get.

Funny enough, Mulan stars a woman (obvs), but she's the only female character written well enough. The other two are so minor in comparision. Otoh, the only competent male characters in this film are Shang and Shan-Yu; everybody else is an idiot. So make what you will of that...

I enjoy CYFTLT.

Hakuna Matata, on the other hand, is a piece of shit. By far the worst song in the movie, and one of the most annoying, pointless songs Disney has EVER created.

Disney's Divinity wrote:Their attempt to make Nala seem empowered was fake feminism in the same vein as Jasmine’s “I’m not a prize to be won.”

You mean the hunt scene? As far as I'm concerned, it makes perfect sense for her to be hunting, as, in a pride of lions, it's usually the lionesses who do the hunting. It's even mentioned in a documentary about lions that was a bonus feature on one of the special edition DVDs.

Lady Cluck wrote:Hakuna Matata, on the other hand, is a piece of shit. By far the worst song in the movie, and one of the most annoying, pointless songs Disney has EVER created.

Yes, thank you.

Lady Cluck wrote:I enjoy CYFTLT.

Hakuna Matata, on the other hand, is a piece of shit. By far the worst song in the movie, and one of the most annoying, pointless songs Disney has EVER created.

Okay that I agree with, that song is indeed worthless only to function as something for Nathan Lane to sing. That song is a bad bump in the road to what is my third favorite Disney Animation film in the modern era (with Tangled beating TLK by other elements).

So much hate for Hakuna Matata ):



I can understand why somebody could dislike though, it is annoying.

Musical Master wrote:

Lady Cluck wrote:I enjoy CYFTLT.

Hakuna Matata, on the other hand, is a piece of shit. By far the worst song in the movie, and one of the most annoying, pointless songs Disney has EVER created.

Okay that I agree with, that song is indeed worthless only to function as something for Nathan Lane to sing. That song is a bad bump in the road to what is my third favorite Disney Animation film in the modern era (with Tangled beating TLK by other elements).

Whatever it's merits as a song, the philosophy of Hakuna Matata is a significant part of the story and Simba's character arc. Wouldn't call it worthless.

Out of place? Absolutely not. It fit for the moment and you have to remember animals take sexual attraction a lot different than humans do. Hell a more realistic depiction would be...well, I shouldn't say or I might get banned. Either way you look at it, the relationship between Simba and Nala is about the same as any other Disney relationship in terms of the amount of development, which is majority of the time thin outside of some cases (Lilo & Stitch, Belle & Beast). I don't see the issue with it especially since the focus of the Lion King really wasn't necessarily about Simba and Nala, but about Simba's life and growth as a character, which till this day is some of the best character development a single character has in Disney movies. Simba's character development was the main focus for the most part and I think the movie succeeded at making sense out of it with a pretty straight-forward coming-to-age story.

Also I do agree that Hakuna Matata is pointless, but that's kind of the point of it. Simba dealt with depression by not giving a crap through his teenage life, ignoring his past life and living a carefree life with no responsibilities. Even that made sense for the most part despite being the most overexposed Disney song of all time.

qindarka wrote:

Musical Master wrote: Okay that I agree with, that song is indeed worthless only to function as something for Nathan Lane to sing. That song is a bad bump in the road to what is my third favorite Disney Animation film in the modern era (with Tangled beating TLK by other elements).

Whatever it's merits as a song, the philosophy of Hakuna Matata is a significant part of the story and Simba's character arc. Wouldn't call it worthless.

You know, if that song was cut and replaced by a montage of explaining that philosphy to Simba and showing their place and time passes; it can still work without that annoying song.

But wasn't there actually a montage that shown Simba growing from a cub to an adult?

As it is I think the film works fine (and this coming from somebody who doesn't like the songs of this film!)

DC Fan wrote:The same color was used with Simba´s cub at the end of The Lion King.

But then, at the beginning of Lion King 2 we see that Kiara´s fur is cream; her color and that of the lionesses.

Simba:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... 88df50.png

Simba´s cub at the end of Lion King:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... 6fc273.png

Kiara at the beginning of Lion King 2:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee84 ... e420d5.png

Funny thing was originally in TLK 2, Kiara was going to have a big brother and the big brother was going to be the one in TLK. But he was removed because of story reasons