Brenda Chapman Left Pixar

[DisneyAnimation88]

I dunno about you, but I think Pixar is pretty damn sexist.!

I think that is ridiculous but there you go. Out of curiosity, of the twenty-seven DreamWorks films that have been produced over the past fifteen years, how many have female leads?

[Sotiris]

Out of curiosity, of the twenty-seven DreamWorks films that have been produced over the past fifteen years, how many have female leads?

It's not only a matter of the female leads in their films but of the culture that exists at each studio. It's a well-known fact that DreamWorks treats women better. I'm not saying Pixar is "sexist" but they do have issues they need to work on. For instance, they don't have enough women in key creative positions (see story/direction). Chapman was the only woman there and now that she's gone they've only hired Marti Noxon as their token female.

[DisneyAnimation88]

It's not only a matter of the female leads in their films but of the culture that exists at each studio. It's a well-known fact that DreamWorks treats women better. I'm not saying that Pixar is "sexist" but they do have issues they need to work on. For instance, they don't have enough women in key creative positions (see story/direction). Chapman was the only woman there and now that she's gone they've only hired Marti Noxon as their token female.

I can agree with much of that, what I don't agree with is saying Pixar is "pretty damn sexist". I think we'd all like to see more women in those positions you mention, not just at Pixar but right across the industry.

[Sotiris]

I think we'd all like to see more women in those positions you mention, not just at Pixar but right across the industry.

Of course. It's an industry-wide problem.

[pap64]

There are a couple of things I want to say: yes, I am biased. ALL opinion is biased, otherwise it wouldn't be opinion, just random facts being states. And yes, it does appear that I have a negative bias towards Brenda Chapman. I don't know if this is enough to convince people otherwise, but I did feel bad that she was kicked out of the movie, and I thought it was great when she received her Oscar and was able to thank her daughter for inspiring her and the story of Merida and Elinor. I thought that was fantastic. My issue with her is that all this constant negativity towards Pixar and all the anger and frustration she spews in her comments and interviews is not winning me over, especially since no one was really there to see it unfold. For all we know, Pixar could have been a bunch of jerks, or Chapman was highly impossible to work with, and thus was fired.

We are forgetting one key element in this situation: film, and especially animation, is a collaborative medium. That means that EVERYONE, from the producers to the in-betweeners, has to collaborate in order to bring a vision to life. And sometimes when creating something, some sacrifices have to be made, even if it comes from a very precious source. Even in the days of Walt Disney, scenes had to be cut, ideas had to be either changed or dropped entirely and people had to rotate for the sake of the final product. What seems to have happened here was that the idea was not working out, and Chapman may not have allowed the process to continue normally, or Pixar did not allow it. One or the other did something that caused the firing, but it was a drastic measure done to make sure the final product was alive and well, especially since it was already underway.

The thing with the "Brenda vs. Pixar" debacle is that everyone is treating it as a "woman in a man's world" situation, when the fact of the matter is that the issue seems to be more of artistic integrity. The thing is that with all the "Brenda's a female director!" hype, people forget that, and just see Brenda THE WOMAN, nor Brenda THE DIRECTOR. Also, if Pixar was really that misogynistic, why would they let this person produce half their movies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darla_K._Anderson

And last I heard, producer is a higher, much important position than director, and yet she doesn't seem to get most of the credit, nor does she seem to entirely care. Add to that all the great female characters they have featured in their films, and all the female animators and workers, and making the claim that Pixar is somehow anti-female is ridiculous.

And this leads me to my last comment on the situation: the attitude going on around here. I cannot change people's minds, especially if they are set in a stone that itself hosts the sword, and I won't deny that I haven't been the best poster at times. But the immature comments I keep reading at times is just mind boggling, because I honestly believe that people are capable of better. Issues are rarely ever black and white, it is more complex than what they seem. This is an example of that. I won't back out of my opinion that wishing ill will on anyone at Disney or Pixar will change anything, and that having golden age syndrome or extreme biased will keep people away from enjoying good things today. It isn't bad to be passionate about something, but when that passion becomes extreme anger, bias and venomous hatred, something is wrong. All I did was point out that fact, that being angry simply because things that are out of your control didn't work out exactly as you hoped it would be is not gonna make things better. That's why I won't back out of my opinion that a lot of people here have an immature view on things, and it not gonna help things out in the long run.

That's all I say on the matter. If it is immature, biased, stupid, overblown or doesn't fit your quota of what life should be, whatever. I stated my opinion.

[Super Aurora]

You can provide two people with the exact same information, but they could still come up with radically different conclusions.

Case in point--this forum.

I could take pap64's post more seriously if it wasn't already clear that he is as biased as anyone in this thread. He clearly sees Brenda Chapman in a negative light, so I don't see why it's such a big deal that others may see Pixar or John Lasseter negatively. And I don't think it's true to assume that all people that dislike where the company is right now or where it's currently going hates change either.

You're one of the last guy who should excuse someone being bias, especially to someone like Pap64- one of the least bias member on this forum. And even if he admit the was bit bias on the issue(which he just did), at least he able to make a well thought out argument the weighs in both side of the spectrum as oppose to just his own side when calling in on his opinion.

[Sotiris]

We are forgetting one key element in this situation: film, and especially animation, is a collaborative medium. That means that EVERYONE, from the producers to the in-betweeners, has to collaborate in order to bring a vision to life. And sometimes when creating something, some sacrifices have to be made, even if it comes from a very precious source. Even in the days of Walt Disney, scenes had to be cut, ideas had to be either changed or dropped entirely and people had to rotate for the sake of the final product. What seems to have happened here was that the idea was not working out, and Chapman may not have allowed the process to continue normally, or Pixar did not allow it. One or the other did something that caused the firing, but it was a drastic measure done to make sure the final product was alive and well, especially since it was already underway.

This "doing what's best for the film" argument is highly subjective though. It depends on whose creative vision you trust. Considering I found the final film incredibly underwhelming, I can't help but feel it would have turned out better had Chapman remained at the helm. Had Brave been amazing, I wouldn't be bothered about the directorial change. I would understand the management had the film's best interest in mind. I wasn't upset when Jan Pinkava got replaced because Ratatouille turned out to be an amazing film. Also, if you had read Chapman and Andrews' interviews, you would know that the most significant changes were the addition of silly humor, the shenanigans of the triplets, the multiple action scenes, as well as making the men in Brave comic relief characters who don't pose any real threat and can't be taken seriously. I consider all these changes detrimental to the story. Therefore, I believe if Chapman had been allowed to execute her vision, Brave would have turned out much better. Not perfect, because I find the premise itself flawed, but still considerably better.

And last I heard, producer is a higher, much important position than director.

It's not. Producers are not considered more important than directors and they usually do not enjoy the exposure, fame, salary and status that directors do.

It isn't bad to be passionate about something, but when that passion becomes extreme anger, bias and venomous hatred, something is wrong. That's why I won't back out of my opinion that a lot of people here have an immature view on things, and it not gonna help things out in the long run.

I think you're jumping to conclusions based on the attitude of a handful of people. They hardly constitute the majority of this board, let alone the fanbase. I haven't witnessed "extreme anger and venomous hatred" by anyone else here outside of a couple of members.

[DisneyJedi]

Sorry. I'm just a little annoyed at the fact that they treated Brenda's pitch like it was nothing special, but they were all for it when some guy pitched a similar idea to them.

By the way, I think this nice yet tough (fictional) lady describes Pixar's attitude towards women quite well.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Ke0jzfkzo[/youtube]

[jazzflower92]

Sorry. I'm just a little annoyed at the fact that they treated Brenda's pitch like it was nothing special, but they were all for it when some guy pitched a similar idea to them.

By the way, I think this nice yet tough (fictional) lady describes Pixar's attitude towards women quite well.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Ke0jzfkzo[/youtube]

Again you are twisting what happened to bash Pixar without any real evidence.

[Sotiris]

Sorry. I'm just a little annoyed at the fact that they treated Brenda's pitch like it was nothing special, but they were all for it when some guy pitched a similar idea to them.

Again you are twisting what happened to bash Pixar without any real evidence.

I think DisneyJedi misinterpreted the following comments of Chapman. She's talking about the industry in general there; she's not specifically referring to Pixar.

Sometimes women express an idea and are shot down, only to have a man express essentially the same idea and have it broadly embraced. Until there is a sufficient number of women executives in high places, this will continue to happen.

[Disney's Divinity]

at least he able to make a well thought out argument the weighs in both side of the spectrum as oppose to just his own side when calling in on his opinion.

I don't weigh both sides in my post because I'm not a mediator and I have never pretended that I'm giving anyone's opinion but my own.

@DisneyAnimation88: I actually hadn't thought of that. It's a good thing Disney didn't begin recently, otherwise SW, TLM, etc. probably wouldn't have happened.

[Sotiris]

In a new piece about women in animation, Brenda Chapman talks about her time at Pixar as well as issues women face in the animation industry at large.

The scarcity of women in creative leadership roles may simply come down to a Mars-Venus disconnect between how men and women communicate, "Brave" co-director Brenda Chapman says. "I think the issue is that women bring a different sensibility into the mix," Chapman says. "And I think the majority of male studio executives and producers are still expecting what they're used to — the traditional, male-driven, comedy-heavy stories."

"Frozen" co-director Jennifer Lee won the Oscar for animated feature in 2014, but a year earlier Chapman had the distinction of being the first woman to win in that category for "Brave." Chapman's journey, however, was far from easy. She conceived of the film's ginger-headed Scottish princess while working at Pixar and was named the film's director, the company's first woman in that position. Ultimately, though, Chapman was replaced by colleague Mark Andrews; she and Andrews were given co-director credits. That turn of events was in large part because of her being a woman, Chapman says.

"It was less open sexism and more just being in a room full of men and trying to explain my point of view and not being understood because they didn't get it, it wasn't in their wheelhouse," Chapman says. "On 'Brave,' I was trying to maintain some integrity for my characters and they just didn't get it. That was very difficult."

Looking forward, Chapman says she's concerned about how a continually shrinking job market could affect women coming out of college. "When I look at some of the young women filmmakers trying to get into the studio system, they're just so grateful to have a job they'll do whatever is asked of them," she says. "But I've seen a few that have a spark, and I think, 'They're going to push it when they get further along.' I'm hoping that happens."

Source: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la ... story.html

[Disney's Divinity]

Unfortunately, change rarely happens from within. Men aren't exactly going to stop choosing other men for the jobs unless forced to. It's sad that "quotas" would probably be the only way to get change ignited in most industries.

[disneyphilip]

Let this thread die.

Besides, all the false accusations against Lassetter are completely wrong anyway.

[Mooky]

I guess this article deserves a thread of its own, but I'm going to post it here as it sheds some light on the whole Brenda Chapman/Pixar deal.

Inside The Persistent Boys Club Of Animation

[Semaj]

I guess this article deserves a thread of its own, but I'm going to post it here as it sheds some light on the whole Brenda Chapman/Pixar deal.

Inside The Persistent Boys Club Of Animation

Looking back at Brave, one can guess that Chapman wanted to take the dramatic elements of her story farther than what Pixar is used to. At its core, they may have been adhering to the "laughter for every tear" rule for a story that didn't need it.

If her dismissal was gender related, they likely misinterpreted her story as "too feminine" or "not masculine enough".

[PatrickvD]

And Lasseter's stubbornness in sticking to this 'for every laugh there should be a tear' philosophy is one of the many problems in his current leadership style.

Spirited Away has little big laughs, yet it is a masterpiece. The Emperor's New Groove is one big parade of quotable laughs and I would rate it above at least half of Lasseter's projects at WDAS. It had ten time more charisma and flair than the dry Big Hero 6 for example.

He's developed a kind of tunnel vision. It's not surprising Brenda Chapman's darker tale was never really going to go through under his leadership. I think she was very right when she said they "just didn't get it".

[Jules]

I suppose we could always look forward to Lasseter's successor. He won't be chief creative officer of WDAS forever, will he?

[jazzflower92]

And Lasseter's stubbornness in sticking to this 'for every laugh there should be a tear' philosophy is one of the many problems in his current leadership style.

Spirited Away has little big laughs, yet it is a masterpiece. The Emperor's New Groove is one big parade of quotable laughs and I would rate it above at least half of Lasseter's projects at WDAS. It had ten time more charisma and flair than the dry Big Hero 6 for example.

He's developed a kind of tunnel vision. It's not surprising Brenda Chapman's darker tale was never really going to go through under his leadership. I think she was very right when she said they "just didn't get it".

I wouldn't call Big Hero 6 dry. Actually I don't agree at all that any of the projects that he's done are bad. I just think this just a case of sour grapes rather than actual criticism.

[Sotiris]

And Lasseter's stubbornness in sticking to this 'for every laugh there should be a tear' philosophy is one of the many problems in his current leadership style. Spirited Away has little big laughs, yet it is a masterpiece. The Emperor's New Groove is one big parade of quotable laughs and I would rate it above at least half of Lasseter's projects at WDAS. It had ten time more charisma and flair than the dry Big Hero 6 for example. He's developed a kind of tunnel vision. It's not surprising Brenda Chapman's darker tale was never really going to go through under his leadership. I think she was very right when she said they "just didn't get it".

Exactly. Lasseter has a very limited perspective on filmmaking (and art in general). I'm really tired of him passing his worn, mundane, conventional brand of storytelling as original and revolutionary. I'm tired of him being heralded as a visionary filmmaker when he's merely pandering to the lowest common denominator of public taste. I'm tired that he praises the Brain Trust at Pixar (and Story Trust at WDAS) as a framework that allows multiple and diverse voices to be heard when it's nothing more than a clique made up of people chosen by him who share the same storytelling values and sensibilities as him, regurgitating the same ideas and approaches while when anyone dares to deviate from that restricting creative box, inevitably gets the boot.