If you could change anything in a Disney Movie

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Animalia
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Post by Animalia »

Dr Frankenollie wrote:
Animalia wrote:When I went to the theater there was a little boy who asked after after Ray got squashed "does he die?" and the mother told him he would of course be okay since it's a Disney film.
Now I've got another reason I'm glad he died. :D It's annoying that most people regard Disney as innocent fluffiness only for small children.
It doesn't have to be just for children but they should be aware that children are watching. It's suppose to be rated G for a reason.

Beauty and the Beast is the perfect example of a movie that isn't just for little kids but it's appropriate for them. Does the Beast die? No. Does everyone live happily ever after? Yes. That means it has to be for little kids right? Well it was the only Disney animated feature to be nominated for best picture... I don't think the people who voted for it are small children.

Sorry for the rant, I just feel very strongly on the subject that a movie that has a happy ending/no bittersweet doesn't make it just for kids.
Last edited by Animalia on Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Lazario »

Animalia wrote:Well, from Princess and the Frog I would have Ray not die.

I think I wouldn't have minded it so much if it was say in the middle of the film instead of the end. When Mufasa dies, the film doesn't end right there. You still have funny moments afterwards with Timon and Pumbaa but with Ray dying at the end of the film, I felt sad throughout the whole ending. I never got happy again. Also with Disney films sidekicks NEVER die, they are the characters you get attached too. And if I was a mother I would be very upset about it. When I went to the theater there was a little boy who asked after after Ray got squashed "does he die?" and the mother told him he would of course be okay since it's a Disney film.
That mother was a moron. I was actually ready to say the kid was a moron too but I'm just now remembering that after the character was squished, Disney decided to show him as slowly dying but not actually smooshed into slime and little pieces. Which was cheap, cowardly, and manipulative of Disney to do. They sure as hell showed him being mashed down to nothing when the villain (his name is escaping me at present) stepped on him. Biology is not a video game or a cartoon. The mother might as well tell the kid that if you squash a spider, it will come back and get revenge or something.

Animalia wrote:Trust me, it isn't fun sitting in a theater with young kids crying at the films end.
Why would you pay theater admission prices at all? Are you rich? You absolutely can't wait until it comes out on DVD? From the astronomical ticket costs to everyone interrupting the movie with their cellphones, seriously, why the hell do people go to movie theaters anymore??

Anyway, I know the movie wasn't worth a damn but I saw Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III at the theater back in 199...2(?) and none of the kids cried during that. There were, however, at least one or two kids who talked and acted up through the entire thing. And the WHOLE room could hear every sound that came out of their mouths. Kids + Movie Theaters = Chaos. They do not mix. It doesn't matter whether the movie is happy, sad, or in between. Kids are bad audiences for movies.

Furthermore, parents today are idiots. Raising their kids to be pathetic, overemotional pinheads. You know what my parents took me to see in the theaters? Well, I'll rewind the dial a little bit to the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. We all thought Splinter's ass was toast when he vanished. Then we saw him chained up in some nasty, underground torture chamber where he was being beaten (offscreen), starved, and threatened with violent death. Did we cry? Hell no! Oh, they tried to make us cry. They turned up the sad, suspenseful music and everything. Then, they tried to kill Raphael. Did we cry then? NO! They had him beaten within an inch of his life, rendered unconscious for DAYS, turned on the sad music, and even had Leonardo crying because he thought he was never going to see his brother alive again.

Did we cry when that old guy kept dying in Groundhog Day? Or when the old black guy died in Grumpy Old Men? Did we cry when that girl in Big Girls Don't Cry, They Get Even let the dog go who was owned by the man who beat it and he ran right back to the abuser? Or in Bingo when we found out that Otho from Beetlejuice was actually killing dogs, making hot dogs out of them, and selling them to truck stop patrons? Or in Pet Sematary when Gage was hit by a truck and died? Did we cry when Arnold Schwarzenegger was shot, bled all over the place, fell unconscious, and almost died in Kindergarten Cop? Did we cry when Tia hurt Uncle Buck's feelings? Or in Twins when Danny Devito was reunited with his mother who abandoned him? Or in Curly Sue when you saw all those people with no homes? Or in Hocus Pocus when the bus ran over Binx the cat?

Kids today are spoiled and have no clue what movies used to be like. If they cried at that stupid, unfunny, annoying bug dying in Princess and the Frog, they deserve the trauma. The kids in my day survived MUCH worse.
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Dr Frankenollie
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Post by Dr Frankenollie »

Animalia wrote:Sorry for the rant, I just feel very strongly on the subject that a movie that has a happy ending/no bittersweet doesn't make it just for kids.
I agree with you on that; movies with sweet, happy endings shouldn't just be for kids. However, I don't think movies with sad or bittersweet scenes should just be for adults. If The Princess and the Frog made that mother you mentioned realise that with Disney, not everything turns out okay and that it's not just childish nonsense, then I'm pleased.
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Re: If you could change anything in a Disney Movie

Post by DisneyFan09 »

Jay wrote:If you could go back and change things in Disney films what would they be and why? Only the classic animated films. It could be a character, scene, line anything you want.
I know I'm probably gonna repeat myself, but here it goes.

TANGLED: Give better songs, make a better climax.

THE PRINCESS AND THE FROG: Give Dr. Facilier more screentime and give the film a more grand climax.

BROTHER BEAR: Give Kenai an actual reason to kill the bear, instead of coming of as a douche who kills a innocent bear for no reason.

CHICKEN LITTLE: Eliminate the awful "All I Know" song, make the script more coherent and make the less act less frenetic.

LILO & STITCH: Eliminate Jumba and Pleakley, make the story focus more on Nani and Lilo or Nani and Lilo's relationshop, giving Stitch a chance to really give something to the familiy and make the script less chaotic and more coherent.

ATLANTIS: Giving the other characters more screentime.

THE EMPEROR'S NEW GROOVE: Give the job to another composer than John Debney.

HERCULES: Eliminate the drama and the sentimentality.

HUNCHBACK: Eliminate the dumb guards and get rid of the goofy yell.

POCAHONTAS: Despite all the flaws this film has, I would make the ending more tragic, hopeless and less contrived. Pocahontas at least had the choice to travel to England and while the real John Smith was sent to England in the real life, I thought it was a contrived solution.

In order to not repeat myself, I'm going to stop here.
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Post by Animalia »

Dr Frankenollie wrote:
Animalia wrote:Sorry for the rant, I just feel very strongly on the subject that a movie that has a happy ending/no bittersweet doesn't make it just for kids.
I agree with you on that; movies with sweet, happy endings shouldn't just be for kids. However, I don't think movies with sad or bittersweet scenes should just be for adults. If The Princess and the Frog made that mother you mentioned realise that with Disney, not everything turns out okay and that it's not just childish nonsense, then I'm pleased.
I don't think I would have minded it so much if it was in lets say the middle of the film, but the ending was just way too much. There wasn't enough time for kids to forget the sadness and become happy again. So even though the two main characters ended up fine, the main things kids would focus on is the sadness.


Anyway back on topic, I forgot to mention that in Hunchback of Notre Dame I would remove the song "A Guy Like You" it was an unmemorable song that really didn't help anything story wise. Heaven's Light was a shorter song but it portrayed all you needed to know story wise and was very memorable. I would still have the Gargoyles in the film, they were funny. Just the song wasn't.
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Any Disney animated film: make them all try to have each frame be as perfectly a drawn masterpiece as Sleeping Beauty's frames and all with about as much detail as that film, the first four Disney films, and the Renaissance films, unless it ruins the style that fits the rest of the film.

Any romance in a Disney movie: Show that the characters like things about each other and are a good match. Unless those aren't requirements for all love in real life, like maybe you just like people or spending time with someone and you can't say why, or what qualities you like.

Cinderella: Well of course I love this film and it's perfect...but if I had to add something more to that perfectness...train Cinderella's voice to sing slightly better and (even) more beautiful and more period, less jazzy (but keep some of the jazzy, because it's perfect in "So This is Love"!). Make it obvious that Cinderella was always planning and looking for ways to get out of her unhappy situation(s) or anything she didn't want to do and shouldn't have to do, even if she already was. Cut some of the mice and cat stuff in the getting breakfast and getting things for the dress scenes (I realize Frankenollie mentioned this and I agree with him), and replace it with something that develops Cinderella more like showing how she reads/gets information to know about monarchies like Julius Caesar that she named Gus after or that she likes clothing and sewing so much, as well as some of the other scenes I talk about here. Put in that deleted scene of the prince chasing that fox or deer or whatever animal that you see he's friends with. Show a scene at the ball, probably during a slightly longer "So This is Love", that shows Cinderella learn of the prince's love and kindness towards animals that is like her own, or some other thing(s) she likes about him that shows us more that they are a good match (and make him look less like a jerk before he meets Cinderella). After the prince says "I don't even know your name, how will I find you?" add the line "Please give me something!", and if they didn't already have her do it secretly, subtley show that Cinderella leaves her slipper on purpose. And possibly put back in that deleted scene of Cinderella wondering if the prince will accept her as a servant in rags, and then he does, and the Fairy Godmother comes back to transform her again, and then the wedding bells ring and the rest of the ending happens. But maybe not, because Walt was very smart about how that might possibly draw out the ending too long, like making us wait and putting us through turmoil before we find out everything will be okay!

Snow White: Make Snow White much more the fairest one of all with a prettier design more like Gustaf Tenggren's original design or that 90's re-design. Train her voice to sound better and more beautiful, especially on those high notes! Make her less naive and more like a 14 year old of average intelligence! Okay she wasn't dumb but make her more realistic. Have her not seem bitchy when she tells the dwarfs to wash their hands. Cut some of the extended "Whistle While You Work" and dwarfs stuff (I realize Frankenollie mentioned this and I agree with him), replace it with stuff that develops Snow White more, and possibly also the Queen. And possibly also her prince, though I like him being such a mystery, kinda like Cinderella's prince. Make the romance have a little more by seeing things they like about each other that show they're a good match.

Sleeping Beauty: Make the heroine, you know, a heroine. And if some people don't think she is the heroine, there's too much that makes most people think she is, so just go with that and make her a developed character we really care about that even if she must sleep for a third of the film we are still thinking about her and think it's her movie because she's so great. Even if she was just like Snow White we would care more because Snow White affected us. Make her romance with Prince Phillip a little longer with us seeing some (more?)things they like about each other and more that they are a good match. Make Prince Phillip show (even) more personality and not seem like a jerk (though that's some people's opinion), and make him struggle more to win against Maleficent in the end, and more on his own. Make the whole ending more of not easily/quickly defeated challenge. Pretty much what I'm saying is like Goliath said. Which reminds me, Maleficent does need to not be so dumb as to not know her dumb goons have been doing it wrong for soooo long. It takes away from her, and is not good writing. It's doesn't make sense for the rest of her esteemed character. It's a hole.

Bambi: Yea don't do that "Gay Little Spring Song" right after Bambi's mom just died, like Tae said. Show a montage of Winter turning into Spring like I swear there was a kind of montage of Summer becoming Fall or Fall becoming Winter earlier. Subtley show Bambi growing up with his dad very far away almost in silhouette in that montage. Even fighting with his dad, if deer do that with their dads, I don't know. Have the grown-up versions of their voices not sound so...jarring and yucky. Have Thumper and Flower not meet their mates in that way, and don't have their mates be disturbing female versions of themselves. Have them see a bunch of boy and female animals like them that they naturally just play with and enjoy and become twitterpatted with. Or just make it less yucky. Because I can see the humor, wow, and joy of each one witnessing their buddy become twitterpatted with mysterious girls that somehow entrance them, but the way it is done is downright disgusting. Kinda like what Goliath said.

The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh: if only they had made it as was originally planned, all as one feature-length film. As it is, it doesn't feel quite like a real film, with anything building to anything. And there's lots of re-used animation in places that is rather lazy, fix that. It just wasn't worked on the same way the other classics were in Walt's day. Otherwise, it really is a wonderful thing with wonderful characters, just not quite what I would call a good film.

The Little Mermaid: Yes like Goliath said keep her beautifully on-model. Ariel is a great character worthy of her love and I can see that, but maybe have Ariel seem a liiiitle more caring about what other people think and feel. Maybe have her think a little more. Maybe even have her grow into all that after she shows she's really sorry and wrong for what she did. Perhaps even just make her a little more like the Ariel in the TV series. I loved a lot of the kind and clever stuff she did there. Give the romance more from the start and make Ariel know more about Eric and that he loves her before she makes the deal to be with him. Then make it clear that Eric loves all sorts of stuff about her when she's on land but he partly fell for a girl who loved him so much she would sing beautifully for him and save him. Then have Ariel on land try to play beautiful music or try to save him, to show that she loves him and that makes him almost fall completely for her until Ursula's spell takes over him. Have her write in Atlantican, which looks inbetween English and the unintelligible writing on Ursula's scroll, so we know she couldn't write to Eric telling him who she was. Show that Ariel loves singing to a certain degree so we know it's more of a sacrifice for her to give up her voice.

Beauty and the Beast: Fix the animation damnit. Give the prince the name Adam or another name and show more what he is like and that Belle and the Beast like things about each other beyond that they're nice and like spending time together, more that they are a good match.

Lilo & Stitch: Make the designs a little more nicer Disney looking, not like muppets. Make Lilo less disturbingly weird, have less disturbing and violent and shocking stuff. More of the classy gentle Disney we know. Bambi is violence done classy. Chernabog is disturbing stuff done classy. Aladdin's genie with multiple arms is disturbing stuff done magically lighthearted. That's Disney as it should be.

Chicken Little: Either have it NOT DONE AT ALL or make more Disney hand-drawn-looking CGI kinda like Tangled and make it the actual original story, just with a modern funny twist. I'm okay with a modern set version of the story because as far as I know it didn't begin with "Once upon a time", unless the original story was set on a farm from back then, but if it wasn't, the modern animal world it has is fine but don't make it crappy pop culture stuff and really don't make it crappy in general. Make it seem more Disney.

Meet the Robinsons: I didn't see it yet but from as much as I know I feel like saying make it more Disney. The animation definately needs to look more Disney hand-drawn like Tangled.

Bolt: Make it like Chris Sanders' version as long as it's not done disturbingly and more Disney, and make the animation look more Disney hand-drawn like Tangled.

The Princess and the Frog: Make Tiana more princess-like and not so into working. Show that working makes her kinda sad and she wishes she could have more fun, and then later make us see she actually does have fun, and don't have her act all bitchy when teaching Naveen to work or smile all bitchy as she makes him help her work on building her restaraunt. Make the introduction to Naveen, Laurence, and Facilier less rushed, Make Facilier have a more believable goal (taking over New Orleans? How about just taking over Big Daddy's place or something?) or make him very obviously evil that he would put everyone's soul's in hell to take over an entire town, because I felt his goal was out of nowhere and unbelievable. Make the story less complicated and all over the place. Make the songs and whole movie not suck. Maybe have Alan Menken work with Randy Newman or just have Alan Menken. Make the animation better like the moving leaf and Laurence's design that need work. Make Louis make sense instead of having the most unbelievably bizarre story for him that only works for laughs at how extremely absurd it is. Perhaps his discarded story of being a human before. Make Ray better, less annoyingly stupid and disgusting and looking like he's inbred. Why did he die anyway? Why is our time wasted caring so much about a side character when you have a thousand side characters? Maybe don't have him die because of that reason. Have Mama Odie really teach Tiana something and not have Tiana be too stupid to take so long to figure it out. Don't have the frog hunters, or at least make that scene explicitly about Naveen and Tiana being in trouble and working together instead of looking like really being about stupid unfunny characters we waste too much time on. Don't make the scene take as long either.

Tangled: CALL IT RAPUNZEL, open with a golden storybook that Flynn narrates RESPECTFULLY about Mother Gothel being a witch who casts a spell to make the golden sun drop on her Rapunzel flower which gets stolen by peasants and transferred to their daughter Rapunzel, Flynn's real name is not Eugene but Bastian and he's a prince running away from the palace guards because he is shirking his royal duty to be a thief, when he takes Rapunzel to his castle in disguise he learns to love the palace and lights just like she does, he goes to tell the Stabgingtons he is giving up being a thief but they kidnap him because he's good at getting them things and would force him to work for them or die, or they send him off to the palace tied to the boat where Rapunzel sees him greeted and kissed by a princess he's betrothed to that he was also trying to avoid if this is the plot point we must go with, Rapunzel knew about this betrothal and he said he didn't want her but she sees him leaving her for him in that boat so Rapunzel's heartbroken, Prince Flynn's parents try to lock him in his room, he escapes to Rapunzel's tower to get stabbed and the whole ending happens the same way except Rapunzel's new dream after she and Flynn are together is to find her parents, and she does, and the storybook closes with no disgusting old man ruining the beautiful ending. And make "Ive Got a Dream" not such a bad, bad song.
Ivan wrote:For The Rescuers, I'd have cut out the character of Evinrude. I don't know why, but it just annoys me.
He annoys me too. I would have made him not look like a really ugly dragonfly version of Mario the Italian video game plummer, and just cut some stuff with him or made him less annoying/less of a character.
Ivan wrote:Hunchback of Notre Dame - obvious one. No gargoyles.
No, because they don't have to be gotten rid of if you do this:
Tae wrote:In Hunchback... I would not remove the gargoyles. Yes, stare in shock at me all you want, but I have a feeling that without the gargoyles, they would have found some other annoying way to insert comedy relief, so might as well have it in the form of characters who aren't our leads. What I would do, is cut their song, give them a more sophisticated way of being funny (Lumiere, Cogsworth, and Mrs. Potts, anyone?), and show in the end that in reality, they were nothing more then Quasimodo's imaginary friends, and now that he's accepted, he can let go of them and start a new life among the citizens of Paris. Now that would have been a nice way to finish his character off.
Perfect. But then, what "A Guy Like You" could be replaced with, I dunno. I dunno what the stage show did.
carolinakid wrote:Cinderella.....Lady Tremaine, Anastasia & Drizella would have suffered more of an on screen comeuppance.
Aw, but seeing their faces is already soooo satisfying! But I would have liked to have seen them at the wedding, and also the Fairy Godmother.
carolinakid wrote:Peter Pan....I wish Neverland would have been as exciting and beautiful as the London scenes.
That would be good, yea.
Animalia wrote:Trust me, it isn't fun sitting in a theater with young kids crying at the films end.
If kids just have tears stream down their face, I think it's okay, but it real tears my heart when kids get really upset by movies, and I think it's not okay to do that to kids. It's like giving them pain on purpose. It's actually rather cruel.
DisneyFan09 wrote:HERCULES: Eliminate the drama and the sentimentality.
HUH?! What do you mean? Drama is what makes movies good...what do you mean by either thing you said to remove?
Last edited by Disney Duster on Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by qindarka »

Peter Pan: Actually resolve the subplots about Peter and Wendy's sexual tension and Peter's own feelings about not being able to grow up. The movie seems to build these up and then forget them in favor of a slapstick filled climax.

Fox and The Hound: Kill Chief off. He was clearly intended to die in that he serves absolutely no purpose after that scene. Showing that he survived also ruined his death scene which was a very good one. The movie just seems ridiculous with Slade and Copper swearing eternal vengeance on a fox just for a broken leg.
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Post by carolinakid »

Cinderella.....I always thought Prince Charming should have been the one to search with the slipper rather than the Duke. And it would have been nice if the Fairy Godmother had changed Cinderella back into her ball finery after the slipper was found to fit. Both those touches are in Rodgers & Hammerstein's Cinderella which appeared 7 years after Disney's (1957). I assume Walt or TPTB felt the Duke provided more comic relief with the Stepsisters rather than having Prince Charming being there when Cinderella was found.
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Post by Disney Duster »

qindarka wrote:Peter Pan: Actually resolve the subplots about Peter and Wendy's sexual tension and Peter's own feelings about not being able to grow up. The movie seems to build these up and then forget them in favor of a slapstick filled climax.
Yea! And make Hook a more serious villain, especially for the climax. Some of his comedy iss ok but he needs to be better to take seriously for the drama of the movie.
carolinakid wrote:And it would have been nice if the Fairy Godmother had changed Cinderella back into her ball finery after the slipper was found to fit. Both those touches are in Rodgers & Hammerstein's Cinderella which appeared 7 years after Disney's (1957). I assume Walt or TPTB felt the Duke provided more comic relief with the Stepsisters rather than having Prince Charming being there when Cinderella was found.
I wrote about the Fairy Godmother doing that, too. And Disney had the Duke instead of the prince mainly because the prince was harder to animate because he was a more realistic, serious man. By the way did you get my messages I wanted to try to be personal friends again?
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Post by Dr Frankenollie »

Disney Duster wrote:Make Lilo less disturbingly weird,
:? But if you removed Lilo's 'weirdness', then she wouldn't be lonely, wouldn't need Stitch and there would be no story. Lilo's bizarre mannerisms, hobbies, et cetera make her character endearing, funny and interesting, and make sense, because she's struggling to cope with her parents' deaths.
Disney Duster wrote:The Princess and the Frog: Make Tiana more princess-like and not so into working. Show that working makes her kinda sad and she wishes she could have more fun,
What's wrong with showing a young, independent woman who enjoys her work?
Disney Duster wrote:
Ivan wrote:For The Rescuers, I'd have cut out the character of Evinrude. I don't know why, but it just annoys me.
He annoys me too. I would have made him not look like a really ugly dragonfly version of Mario the Italian video game plummer, and just cut some stuff with him or made him less annoying/less of a character.
Where's the hate for Evinrude coming from? He's a wonderful character.
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Post by Super Aurora »

WTF Duster agreeing with Goliath on several points?!

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Disney Duster wrote:Put in that deleted scene of the prince chasing that fox or deer or whatever animal that you see he's friends with.
You got youtube video link of it? i want to see this.
Disney Duster wrote:Lilo & Stitch: Make the designs a little more nicer Disney looking, not like muppets.

but Disney owns the Muppets too! Image


In all seriousness though, If you look at Sanders, pin up work and other artwork of his, that basically his style and way he draws.

Disney Duster wrote:Make Lilo less disturbingly weird, have less disturbing and violent and shocking stuff. More of the classy gentle Disney we know. Bambi is violence done classy. Chernabog is disturbing stuff done classy. Aladdin's genie with multiple arms is disturbing stuff done magically lighthearted. That's Disney as it should be.
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Disney Duster wrote:Meet the Robinsons: I didn't see it yet but from as much as I know I feel like saying make it more Disney.
Ending is very Disney and emotional. even has a quote of Walt's at end of the film.
Disney Duster wrote:The Princess and the Frog: Make Tiana more princess-like and not so into working.

That would destroy her character very much.
Disney Duster wrote:(taking over New Orleans? How about just taking over Big Daddie's place or something?)
Technically taking either one will essentially mean taking over the other as well.

Disney Duster wrote:Perfect. But then, what "A Guy Like You" could be replaced with, I dunno. I dunno what the stage show did.
The show had that song in too. A though I heard some of the lyric lines are squeaked to rid the pop culture references.
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Post by Goliath »

Super Aurora wrote:WTF Duster agreeing with Goliath on several points?!
Yep. But he also completely rewrote The Little Mermaid up to the point that it became so ridiculous that none of the story would make any sense anymore. And he would have completely ruined Lilo & Stitch by throwing out everythink about the movie that actually *works*!
Disney Duster wrote:Meet the Robinsons: I didn't see it yet but from as much as I know I feel like saying make it more Disney.
You haven't seen it... yet you already know they have to "make it more Disney?"

What can I say... I don't even have to point out the absurdity; you're doing it yourself.
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Post by The_Iceflash »

What's with the anti-comedic relief vibe here? Comedic relief is very necessary to this films. Making any of these films without the comedic relief hurts the film. There's no benefit to any of these films losing their comedic relief. When Mufasa dies in the middle of the film, you NEED comedic relief to follow it. Timon and Pumbaa, Meeko, Genie, Gargoyles, etc are all necessary to the films. Not only do they provide necessary comedic relief but they all are important in that we get to hear the main character's thoughts and feelings through them. For example, imagine watching the films and not hearing any of Simba's, Quasimodo's, or Aladdin's thoughts? What benefit would that have to the films? The quality of them would go down dramatically. and no I would not make anything in these films more "realistic". Realism is overrated, IMO.
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Post by qindarka »

Goliath wrote:
Super Aurora wrote:WTF Duster agreeing with Goliath on several points?!
Yep. But he also completely rewrote The Little Mermaid up to the point that it became so ridiculous that none of the story would make any sense anymore. And he would have completely ruined Lilo & Stitch by throwing out everythink about the movie that actually *works*!
Disney Duster wrote:Meet the Robinsons: I didn't see it yet but from as much as I know I feel like saying make it more Disney.
You haven't seen it... yet you already know they have to "make it more Disney?"

What can I say... I don't even have to point out the absurdity; you're doing it yourself.
To be fair, he is hardly the only person to judge movies before watching. Rightly or wrongly, most of us already have strong opinions over stuff we haven't seen based on trailers, reviews, internet world of mouth, etc.

And I don't see too much of a problem with his suggestions for The Little Mermaid, not that I agree with all of it.
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Post by SWillie! »

The_Iceflash wrote:What's with the anti-comedic relief vibe here? Comedic relief is very necessary to this films. Making any of these films without the comedic relief hurts the film. There's no benefit to any of these films losing their comedic relief. When Mufasa dies in the middle of the film, you NEED comedic relief to follow it. Timon and Pumbaa, Meeko, Genie, Gargoyles, etc are all necessary to the films. Not only do they provide necessary comedic relief but they all are important in that we get to hear the main character's thoughts and feelings through them. For example, imagine watching the films and not hearing any of Simba's, Quasimodo's, or Aladdin's thoughts? What benefit would that have to the films? The quality of them would go down dramatically. and no I would not make anything in these films more "realistic". Realism is overrated, IMO.
Agreed that comic relief is necessary, but you have to admit that the gargoyle's song is absolutely horrendous and totally ruins the pacing of Hunchback.
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qindarka
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Post by qindarka »

Comic relief is fine if done in a manner where the plot or characterization is still furthered. It is also important that it be actually funny.

Many examples of comic relief, such as in Pocahontas, not only unnecessarily distract us but are annoying instead of entertaining, hence the complaints.

And A Guy Like You is the worse song in the Disney Animated Canon.
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Post by Lazario »

Goliath wrote:Alice in Wonderland: give Alice a personality.
I gather Alice is a character a lot of people flat-out don't care about. But the film is extremely unique for this reason. You have to look at what the film did with her character rather than what it didn't. It made a good case for how a person could wish for something absurd, get it, and simultaneously not realize they made a mistake while being annoyed at the circumstances. Given the movie's sights and sounds... what more personality does Alice need? We already know she's a bit on the dull side. There's a great deal of humor derived from that. You didn't think Alice's reactions to what was happening in Wonderland were interesting and/or amusing?? Given the studio's temptation to throw in cheap emotional manipulation at every turn with their movies, Alice in Wonderland's directness was much more than refreshing. Maybe you don't like Alice, but can you even imagine how the movie would be different if she were changed? Her single emotional character arc - which is very powerful given that it's so spare and reserved for just the right moment, as a means of reminding us that she's actually vulnerable - would be thrown right out the window. And for what? I'm guessing more scenes of her trying to "just go with" the craziness. Which stands in opposition to the kind of person she is at the start of the movie.

In short: Wonderland itself and its' residents have all the personality the movie needs.

Goliath wrote:Sleeping Beauty: give Aurora more screentime, so we actually begin to care about what happens to her. Remove all deus ex machinas of the good fairies when helping Philip; make the end fight actually exciting instead of one magic sword being swung into the dragon; give Aurora some lines after waking up; make Malificent more threatening by making her less incompetent (relying on bumbling buffoons to look for a kid and then only finding out they were looking for a baby after 16 years --is that woman dumb?)
Here we go again:

Aurora is to Sleeping Beauty what the Stepmother's key is to Cinderella. It was the filmmakers' choice to make her a piece of plot rather than a character. She is a symbol, a representation of hope and the future. Not a character.

The scene where she has to confront her minions exists mainly to show us that Maleficent has the power to put her "wrath and frustration" (quoting the narration) into an actual superphysical form. The sense of immediacy that comes from her handling of the situation - NOT the situation itself - is the key here. I think you'll find this is what drives the reputations of all of Disney's classic, pre-Little Mermaid era villains. In essence: taking them for granted. (And then, overall, I really feel Disney made a mistake in trying to always up the stakes with the villains after Ursula. Never felt genuine. Not like they did with Ursula; she was a fucking MONSTER! Like a demon, something from hell or some dark place no one could ever picture in their mind.)

It's bordering on ironic the way I'm hearing people complain that, for all its' ambitions, Sleeping Beauty isn't epic enough. That it has any kind of holes in it. This movie still has a lot more going on within its' structure than any of the other Princess films. There's nothing wrong with anyone saying the entire telling of the movie rests on its' aesthetic. Since those are the moments which gave all of Disney's other classic films their power. Hell, if anything, this makes Sleeping Beauty stronger because there's absolutely no filler. Everything in the film is a necessity, by virtue of the direction they chose to go in.





Anyway, moment of truth... what would I change? Nothing. At least, not until 1996. After Pocahontas, the studio should really have been looking for a new direction to go in. They never found it. They never made another film that would set them on fire. Instead, Pixar rose to prominance and stole their thunder. Disney had a chance to rebound with DVD and managed to class up presentations and offer their fanbase amazing things. But of course, we know what they did after that: snatched them right out of our hands. Compared to that, the movies not being perfect? Not a problem. In fact, sitting back and watching Disney's absurd marketing empire find a new way to collectively fry our brains (The Princess franchise, The Princess and the Frog, etc) has been surprisingly enlightening. Or at least good fuel for more freak-pointing; for all the money Disney makes off of merchandising on lines like this, I don't see anyone proudly admitting that they've bought Princess paraphenalia.
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Post by slave2moonlight »

qindarka wrote:Peter Pan: Actually resolve the subplots about Peter and Wendy's sexual tension and Peter's own feelings about not being able to grow up. The movie seems to build these up and then forget them in favor of a slapstick filled climax.

Was there real sexual tension? Wasn't that just Wendy, as she was growing up but Peter was not. He really didn't seem to "get" the kissing and all that, and seemed to just want Wendy around to be a mother to the Lost Boys and tell stories. I think the resolution was that Wendy realized she needed to go home, since she was growing up and Peter never would. As for Peter's feelings about not being able to grow up, he seemed to be happy with that. Again, nothing to resolve there. Maybe you're thinking of the live-action version...

Anyway, here's something I'd definitely change. Meet the Robinsons. I'd take out or change the presentation of a lot of the humor to make it actually funny stuff, especially in that "look how weird our family is" section of the movie that just blows. I like a lot about this movie, but when it is bad, it is soooo bad that it is VERY embarrassing to watch.
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Post by tsom »

Tangled: Add a Heavenly Chorus finale with a wedding!
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Post by Disney's Divinity »

Snow White: Cut the superfluous nonsense (and that includes the dwarves' argument over whether or not to wash their hands...). Have Snow White show her pure character in her actions and not in housework.

Cinderella: Cut the mice down--but not out of the film entirely. I enjoy the mice; I just don't like the amount of time they're given versus Cinderella and the Stepmother.

Sleeping Beauty: Make Phillip as bland as Aurora so Aurora's lack of character won't stand out as much.

101 Dalmatians: I agree with Dr. Frankenollie on Perdita. The rest is brilliant though.

The Rescuers: Get rid of the hillbilly characters; all their scenes are tedious. Make Bianca less condescending and, thus, her relationship with Bernard more believable. Alter Medusa so that she doesn’t feel like a Cruella knock-off--maybe by excising the driving scene and/or making her more intelligent (less spoiled). Most of the film, she just comes off as an idiot, and not very threatening because of it. Overall, everything about Medusa feels like they were trying too hard to make her into a classic villainess--the copycat personality, the exaggerated movements, the overdone dialogue (both what’s written and how it’s delivered), etc.

The Little Mermaid: I would probably include the alternate version for "Fathoms Below" (the one that mentions Ursula)--I'm just not sure if that would help the film or hurt it. Maybe it's more powerful for the audience to learn about her for the first time the way the movie executes it. Either way, I enjoy that version of the song better, as far as music goes. Make the human world more interesting. Ariel's arc falls a little flat when you come from the amazing underwater world to the (mostly unsatisfying) world on land. I might would give Eric more dialogue or maybe even a brief song--perhaps just before he gets mesmerized by Ursula. I would find some way for Ariel to have a role in the final battle--although I think it works fine the way it is because it fulfills the love arc. Possibly, have Ariel and Triton talk face-to-face for a moment in which they apologize to one another--although, again, I think the film's ending works the way it is. I agree--because I've said this previously in past threads ( :wink: )--with Duster and Goliath about the chubby v. taller Ariel issue. Ariel is more beautiful the way she appears in "Part of That World"--the problem being that she appears to be at least 18 like that. And, personally, I think making her 18 would be better. For one, it would make her more mature, it would make her independence more deserved--for general audiences, who tend to make it into more of an issue of teenage brattiness--and it would help her marriage feel less weird.

Beauty and the Beast: Possibly give the Beast a name that you hear once he's been returned to his original, human form at the end. In other words, he takes back his humanity when he stops being a beast. Fix the time issues. Otherwise, I find this film to be pretty much perfect.

Aladdin: Fix Jasmine. She comes across as an unrelatable, unlikable, spoiled princess who isn't satisfied with already getting everything she wants from her father. I would rather they had went with the original ideas they had for this character. Excise a bit of the Genie, too. I think he's hilarious and I like the freedom arc, but he kind of takes over the movie once he's introduced and the mood of the film changes almost entirely at that moment.

The Lion King: Give Simba new voice actors. Taylor and Broderick are both bad choices, imo. I would increase the role of the lionesses as well--Sarabi and Nala both. Unfortunately, the female characters seem to play no role at all in this film, except to follow orders.

The Hunchback of Notre Dame: The gargoyles don't bother me so much (ever since I started seeing them as a superego/ego/id kind of thing), but I would excise them from several moments in the film. I would probably excise all comedic bits from the climax, just because I feel like those scenes need to be ultra-dramatic for it to work--what with all the religious overtones. Cut Phoebus' screen time down or at least make his personality less cliche. Maybe the same with Esmeralda (as far as the less screen time bit). I would probably give Quasimodo less of a sympathetic voice. He's supposed to be cursed with his looks. It feels kind of like cheating to give him a voice the audience will sympathize with. If he had those looks and a brutish voice, the audience actually might sympathize with his harmless and/or caring actions more rather than feel pandered to. I would also have them make Frollo's facial expressions less "evil"; that kind of takes away from the duality of his character.

Pocahontas: Find a better way to fix the language barrier issue. Make Ratcliffe more serious and/or dramatic, and less obviously evil. I might would alter the intro. scene that features Nakoma and Pocahontas--something about that whole bit feels too modern for me.

Hercules: I enjoy their take on it for what it is. I would probably work on "Go the Distance." It has a beautiful melody, but some of the lyrics are extremely cliche and the scenes that interrupt the song kind of hurt the climactic feeling there should be at the ending (when he goes to find Phil). The lyrics in "The Gospel Truth" could probably use some work, too. I would make the battle between Hercules and the Titans a little longer. I know they didn't want it too long because he would have to go down to the Underworld to get Meg right after this, but it felt too easy and I would've liked to have seen more.

Mulan: I would alter Mulan's personality just a bit. I would make her more serious and less like an American teenager. She can still want independence/etc. and all that, but in a more believable fashion for a character in the time period. Some lyrics of "Reflection" are overdone, although I like the ending with her multiple reflections. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't change anything about this movie.

Tarzan: Maybe give something for Jane to do in the second act. She's interesting in her early scenes, but she seems to become unimportant later on. The character kind of gets sidelined by Tarzan learning about his real parents. Clayton... I think it's fine that he's a flat character, but I would probably make his design more intimidating and actually make him do some real damage so the climax is more powerful.

Treasure Planet: Make some of the CGI gel better--the whale scene is probably the most garish in the film. Re-do the opening scene with Jim so that it feels like less of a cliché “teenagers!” scene; there’s a way to show the behavior issues that’s less generic. I would probably cut the aliens altogether and/or make their designs less ridiculous--add a few more background human characters. BEN needs to be radically re-written; he’s annoying as all hell. Give Doppler and Amelia different voice actors. Also, I wish the color scheme to the film was more lively and less mundane.

The Princess and the Frog: I would cut down the time they spend in the swamp--cut Ray's "Going Down the Bayou" song, which serves no purpose; cut the frog hunters scene. I would also give Mama Odie more to do with a story--maybe some kind of tie or confrontation with Facilier? I would cut some of Louis' lines and keep the storyline he originally had (as one of Facilier's victims). I would give Facilier at least one more scene, and cut Tiana's mucus line from the climax. I would also have Naveen and his butler to have one brief scene where Naveen apologizes for having treated him so badly for so many years (even if his butler still goes to jail). Other than that, I think the film works well the way it is.

Tangled: Cut Flynn's dialogue in the introduction and conclusion, and give the film a narrator a la Cinderella. Work on the lyrics for a lot of the songs--the basis is good for most of them, but they could be much better than they are. I'm not sure how, but I think Flynn's arc needs work for his relationship with Rapunzel to be believable. For one, Rapunzel is too immature and "nice" for a character like Flynn to be interested. Secondly, I can't believe that anything Flynn goes through in the film would make him monogamous or interested in a long-term relationship. I would excise Pascal's role in the climax. I would have Rapunzel mourn Gothel more.
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