DVDizzy.com

Home | Reviews | Schedule | Cover Art | Search The Site
DVDizzy.com Top Stories:

It is currently Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:26 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 194 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:02 am 
Offline
Collector's Edition

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 4:27 am
Posts: 733
Location: San Jose CA
Okay, we've had a few years to judge the effects of the JL takeover. Obviously, animation and the theme parks are the areas that feel the greatest influence, but other parts of the company also have been affected to a lesser extent. So, overall, do you think it's been good or bad for Disney? I know this is a broad question, and most of you will take half a page to answer, and that's all right with me!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:35 am 
Offline
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 1187
Location: Maine
I don't know if his takeover is good or bad. But I do know he should be open-minded to different types of storytelling. He claims Chris Sanders' story for American Dog was too weird for the film's good. Yet years before he praised Miyazaki's Spirited Away, which has a baby as tall as its mother, the heroine's boss has rolling heads for henchmen, and some spirit stalking the heroine and tempting people with fake gold and gobbling them up. That spirit is more disturbing than the radioactive rabbit in American Dog, Lasseter.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:03 am 
Offline
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:22 am
Posts: 1218
Location: Buffalo
Pros

-The Return of Hand-Drawn Animation: Bringing back the basic building block of the Disney heritage was the most important mission of this new regime. Just the mere fact that this revival was engineered by computer gurus, whose films were falsely inspiring 2D's "death" shows how boneheaded the decision-making of Eisner's latter tenure was by the time he left.

-Quality Control: The track record for Disney's features have been more consistent, both creatively and financially. There's still a way to go for Disney to catch up with Pixar and DreamWorks' records, but if Tangled is any indication, audiences are steadily regaining confidence in Disney storytelling. :)

-NO MORE CHEAPQUELS: This was the smartest decision Disney had made in a long time. These sequels, despite the later ones pushing for better art, still dilute the strength of the original stories, and they decrease the originals' long-term value by constantly being promoted alongside them. It had reached the point where the prospect of making endless sequels had become a bigger priority than making a decent original, not to mention that they contradicted Eisner's "2D is dead" claim in a major way.
An interesting story behind this is that because the planned Chicken Little sequel was cancelled, so too was a planned TV series to tie-in with the sequel. This caused Phineas and Ferb to finally emerge from development hell.

Cons

-Where's the Shorts?: Four years into the rebooted shorts program, and only one has been released theatrically. One had switched to the TV format, and became a surprise hit.
But what about Glago's Guest? And the Ballad of Nessie? And Tick Tock Tale? Why was one withdrawn from public distribution? Why are the other two taking an eternity to go into production?
Seems like whenever Disney tries to make shorts again, they drag their feet with them.

-Little Innovation: Some technical CGI experiments have been seen with Bolt and Tangled. There doesn't seem to be enough of it in storytelling. The most infamous case was Chris Sanders' falling out on American Dog.
This isn't the same as quality, as this now calls for doing something different to prevent monotony in their product.

-Brain Drain: Many talented artists are still leaving Disney, while DreamWorks is becoming a safe haven for those chased away by the Mouse. Again, Chris Sanders is the best example. Who knows how well American Dog could've performed? The fact remains that Sanders along with Dean Deblois, both from Lilo & Stitch are now making a ton of money for DreamWorks instead of Disney.
Disney has actually had this problem since the 1980's, with Lasseter himself being one of those who left. If Disney learns how to keep and nourish the talent they already have, they could spend significantly less money trying to buy them back later, like they did with Pixar.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I should admit that at first, Pixar's merger with Disney gave me mixed feelings. It sent the message that Disney was somewhat incapable of making good movies on their own again. That they needed to swallow up a more successful competitor to stay in the game.
Pixar was saved the headache of trying to find another distribution partner, where there was no guarantee that they would get nearly the lofty relation they had with Disney. (I'm looking at Warner Bros.' terrible track record with animated features.) But it also created a slight concern, given Disney's corporate environment that Pixar would someday succumb to that deadly culture.

Looks like, overall, while life is not perfect for either studio, things are much more stable than before the merger.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:07 am 
Offline
Collector's Edition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:06 pm
Posts: 660
I can never forgive JL for getting rid of Chris Sanders. The only good thing that came out of that was How To Train Your Dragon, but that too could've been a disney movie! I like BOLT and all, but I American Dog was Sander's baby.

I also cannot forgive Hayao Miyazaki for getting rid of Mamoru Hosoda in Howl's Moving Castle, and then going onto directing the film himself, completely butchering the story. Both JL and HM are very similar directors. They both made one good film (imo), are heads of their companies, love to dethrone other directors (for reasons including 'they do not conform', and are full of themselves.

/rant.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:54 am 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:34 pm
Posts: 4742
Location: The Netherlands
This thread has all the ingredients to create the perfect recipe for disaster :)

Image

Having said that. I honestly don't see any flaws under Lasseter's reign. The areas where my complaints are (marketing, dvd covers or even the choice to re-release cheapquels) are not under his supervision. The films are good and they make money. I guess everyone should for once be happy. As Disney fans we dodged a bullet which few people realize. We were very close to Snow White 2. Just think about that for a second. And I mean really think about it. I would be ASHAMED to admit I like Disney animated films. You know you would. The very existence of Bambi 2 and most of the sequels, but most notably the ones to Walt's original classics is an abomination.

And I am SO sick of the Chris Sanders discussion. NONE OF US saw American Dog's story reel. WHY would we automatically assume it was any good? Lilo was great, Dragon was fantastic, but that doesn't mean American Dog was any good at all. Fact is we'll never know so can we PLEASE for the love of Walt stop talking about it?

Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:35 am 
Offline
Collector's Edition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:06 pm
Posts: 660
^ read carefully, I don't see people claiming it would've been awesome/good.

And I think most people think Bolt is bad (I disagree).

I seem to recall reading that they would never have made Snow White 2 as it was an untouchable film.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:44 am 
Offline
Collector's Edition
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:33 am
Posts: 881
Location: USA
Victurtle wrote:
I seem to recall reading that they would never have made Snow White 2 as it was an untouchable film.


Not sure how that would have held up over time though; during the first few years of VHS releases Disney said that certain films, including Snow White, would NEVER be available on home video. Fast forward 20+ years and we've got VHS, DVD, and Blu-ray editions. :o I know this isn't quite the same thing, but as they say, "never say never" (and I'm not talking about the Justin Bieber movie! :P ).

_________________
"If it's not Baroque, don't fix it!" - Cogsworth | My Blu-ray collection | My Studio Ghibli blog
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:18 am 
Offline
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 1052
Location: Olathe , Kansas
cheapquels???

They are sequels. I want more. Sequel bashers are like Cybermen all they want to do is delete delete delete.

What part of Disney did JL take over.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:38 am 
Offline
Collector's Edition
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:33 am
Posts: 881
Location: USA
bradhig wrote:
What part of Disney did JL take over.


He is the chief creative officer at both Pixar and Walt Disney Animation Studios as well as principal creative advisor at Walt Disney Imagineering.

_________________
"If it's not Baroque, don't fix it!" - Cogsworth | My Blu-ray collection | My Studio Ghibli blog
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:50 am 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:27 pm
Posts: 2385
Victurtle wrote:
And I think most people think Bolt is bad (I disagree).

Really? Bolt has been very well-received, even by critics.

In regards to American Dog, none of us saw the story-reels, so we have no way of knowing whether it was good or bad. Besides, it's not the first time the director of an animated film was removed from a project, because the story was apparently not working out. Disney replaced Roger Allers with Mark Dindal during production of Kingdom of the Sun, which eventually became The Emperor's New Groove. Ratatouille was Jan Pinkava's pet project for a very long time, before Lasseter hired Brad Bird to take over the project.

Anyway, to answer the question, I think Lasseter has been doing a great job. The quality of the animated films have gone up as have the grosses (can you honestly deny that?), no more direct-to-video sequels to classic films are being produced and best of all, he brought back hand-drawn animation to Disney. People keep going on about him firing Chris Sanders, but he also brought back Ron Clements, John Musker, Eric Goldberg, Bruce Smith and other notable people. You can definitely his guided hand over these projects being produced. I saw Gnomeo & Juliet the other day and while I thought it was okay, it desperately needed the John Lasseter touch (or, at the very least, a couple more re-writes).

Really, his only blunder has been "Tinker Bell." I understand that series has its fans, but I hated the first one and don't plan on seeing the others. But, I think he only pays minimal attention to them, as he's likely more busy looking over Pixar, Disney Animation, the theme parks and his vineyard.

_________________
"If your life had a face, I would punch it." - Kim Pine, Scott Pilgrim vs. The World


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:56 am 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:05 pm
Posts: 5612
Location: Wichita, Kansas
bradhig wrote:
Quote:
cheapquels???


You know 'cheapquels' such as "Beverly Hills Chihuahua 2" and all the "Air Bud" films that never make it to the theater. Any sequel that doesn't get a theatrical release is considered by most to be a 'cheapquel'.

_________________
The only way to watch movies - Original Aspect Ratio!!!!
I LOVE my Blu-Ray Disc Player!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:44 am 
Offline
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:33 pm
Posts: 1915
Location: Mini Van Highway
Semaj wrote:
It sent the message that Disney was somewhat incapable of making good movies on their own again.


Which was sort of true. Not entirely true, but sort of.

_________________
WIST #1 (The pinkrenata Edition) -- Kram Nebuer: *mouth full of Oreos* Why do you have a picture of Bobby Driscoll?

"I'm a nudist!" - Tommy Kirk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:08 pm 
Offline
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:17 am
Posts: 1438
Sky Syndrome wrote:
I don't know if his takeover is good or bad. But I do know he should be open-minded to different types of storytelling. He claims Chris Sanders' story for American Dog was too weird for the film's good. Yet years before he praised Miyazaki's Spirited Away, which has a baby as tall as its mother, the heroine's boss has rolling heads for henchmen, and some spirit stalking the heroine and tempting people with fake gold and gobbling them up. That spirit is more disturbing than the radioactive rabbit in American Dog, Lasseter.


Pretty much my thought. Though it would be tough to find anyone better than JL to be Chief Creative Officer of WDAS given his stellar track record at Pixar.

But him being the solo guy in charge of creativity of all future WDAS features is what is creating the problems. He's the guy that gets the final word on the look and writing of animated films that go through the production pipeline. Every feature I've seen since JL came out has been heavy on the JL influence and shows. The final result are animated features that are played too safe and must have characters with big fluffy eyes and quirky personalities in low-active storylines with morals and themes restricted to younger contemporary audiences...like a well done Saturday morning cartoon. In essence, the latest WDAs films have become way too Pixar-ian in nature.

But wait? Wouldn't being more like Pixar be a good thing? That depends. It's usually a safe bet to take an approach that has been successful time and time again but at the same time by doing this, there has been a severe lack of originality and diversity of creative approaches to animated features. When you consider in the 90s we had all kinds of animated features with all kinds of unique approaches...some got serious (Pocahontas, HotND) while others went more cartoony (Aladdin, Hercules). Regardless each of these films were able to find their ground with their individual styles.

To me Pixar films haven't been much about the story more than it is about following a money-making formula. There have been few exceptions but in the end, I dunno how much more cutesy CGI buddy comedies I can take. Pixar and Disney should work their own angles as far as how they tell their stories. I don't want one studio's approach to be eaten up by the other but I feel that's what has been happening since JL came to WDAS. I mean, if he's so passionate about story...why have the stories of WDAS animated features become so dull and common? I miss the day when animated features could get more bold and intense with the stories they're trying to tell. Do you think JL would've approved the idea of an inter-family murder driving the plot of "The Lion King"? Because I don't think he would've.

The best solution for this is like you said. JL needs to be more open to other story ideas and approaches and not look at everything with only his vision in mind because he is one man and one man can sometimes have the one same type of vision and approach for every project he headlines.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:46 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 9208
Location: North Carolina Gender: Male
Enter "Lasseter has the Midas touch" fans here. :lol:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:50 pm 
Offline
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:22 am
Posts: 1218
Location: Buffalo
bradhig wrote:
cheapquels???

They are sequels. I want more.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:20 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 2377
Location: The Land of Lincoln
MJW wrote:
Victurtle wrote:
I seem to recall reading that they would never have made Snow White 2 as it was an untouchable film.


Not sure how that would have held up over time though; during the first few years of VHS releases Disney said that certain films, including Snow White, would NEVER be available on home video. Fast forward 20+ years and we've got VHS, DVD, and Blu-ray editions. :o I know this isn't quite the same thing, but as they say, "never say never" (and I'm not talking about the Justin Bieber movie! :P ).


Not to go too far off track, but right before JL took the reigns there was a ton of new franchise discussion. The first one was the Fairies franchise that had just gone into production at the time. Pre-sales of Tink and her friend's merchandise had been a good enough for the mouse to begin brainstorming on other new franchises. Two of them had actually lifted off a little, they were the Disney Dragonkind franchise (which featured Mushu, Elliot, and Maleficent) and the Disney Bunnies franchise (which featured Thumper and his sisters). Both didn't really get far, Dragons only gave us some cool statues of the three dragons and Bunnies only has given us a children's book series. Anyhow, another franchise that was talked about/considered was one based on the Seven Dwarfs from Snow White. The biggest thing I remember being considered for the franchise was a series of DTV films that focused on each individual dwarf prior to meeting Snow White and possibly the others. Does anyone else remember that?

So... back on topic... I think overall JL is doing a good job. It's hard for any of us to really judge him IMO because he probably has one of the hardest jobs in Hollywood right now. After all, he's kinda heading not one but two of the biggest studios out there. Then to add onto that his work in Imagineering. His life cannot be easy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:04 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:19 am
Posts: 8175
Location: Appleton, WI
bradhig wrote:
cheapquels???

They are sequels. I want more. Sequel bashers are like Cybermen all they want to do is delete delete delete.

What part of Disney did JL take over.


But even without bashing, most of them sort of tarnish the reputations of the originals.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:44 pm 
Offline
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 1052
Location: Olathe , Kansas
cheapquels???

The work makes my blood boil.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:30 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:47 pm
Posts: 2641
Bolt wasn't bad, it was just very mediocre and ultimately forgettable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:47 pm 
Offline
Gold Collection
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:35 pm
Posts: 155
Kyle wrote:
Bolt wasn't bad, it was just very mediocre and ultimately forgettable.

It's still ten times better than Lady and the Tramp.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 194 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group