It's bizarre that the Art of books would go out-of-print so fast though, or that they wouldn't arrange for larger stock. I guess maybe they do this because they don't know how popular the movie will be until afterwards?
Say one thing about a movie/artist/whatever that you don't like, you immediately take it personally. (That's why you still think I'm an asshole, admit it. I criticised some of your musical tastes two years ago and you still haven't gotten over it.)
Actually, no, it's not. DDuster disagrees with me on a lot of things. SWillie disagrees with me on a lot of things. As does Lazario, SA, and I'm sure many many other people on this board. But I don't (or very rarely) get "offended" by any of them. I usually just end with a "that's your an opinion, blah blah..." That's why I really don't think it's me there's something wrong with in this situation. (If I did, I would apologize, like I usually do)
And none of them have to rip into someone and act as if their opinion takes precedence over mine either (I've tried never to participate in the Disney Essence debates though, so who knows). Even the way you phrased that last bit makes it seem as if it doesn't really matter what I have to say, because you've already judged me and that's the end of it. That's why I've always said I can't debate with you, because you're not looking for a debate. If you were in a public debate and said the same things, almost everyone would agree you were being too inflammatory. Whenever someone tries to express this to you (and it has happened several times beyond me), it's always the other person just taking things "too personally."
Besides, music would be the least of the things I would be bothered with you about. Mostly because you come across as one of those "old is always better" generalizers, so I didn't take you seriously there anyway.
Listening to most often lately:
Ariana Grande ~ "we can't be friends (wait for your love)"
Ariana Grande ~ "imperfect for you"
Kacey Musgraves ~ "The Architect"
So I think Mother Knows Best has one of my favorite Disney's reprises, aside from Part of Your World. It's so good. I've really come to love this soundtrack so much.
EDIT: WOW this is really long. My apologies in advance.
Goliath -
(I'm not directly quoting everything - I'm just responding to everything in general. I'll try to hit all the points you made)
Okay. So, I've never actually seen a problem with you, Goliath. Opinionated at times, yes... but everyone gets like that. When I compared you and BigOne, I didn't necessarily mean to do so with any ill-will towards you. But you and I, and everyone else, are well aware that a lot of people are of the opinion that debates between you and Duster get out of hand. I'm not going to scrounge the forum for examples - we both know what kind of debates I'm talking about. When Duster has his thoughts, you at first come at him in a manner that I think any kind of debate should be handled. You give your opinions in opposition to his, give any kind of facts or support you may have, and then leave it for him to respond. Eventually though, you start to back him in a corner about not giving any kind of proof to back up his opinion. And that's when it starts to get out of hand. But, with you... once it gets to that point it usually seems to fade out, whether that's because you just give up trying to deal with him or whether it's because Duster decides to blow if off because "none of us will ever understand".
So while it starts to get a little out of hand at times between you two, it never goes overboard. At least not in my opinion.
Now, before I start talking about BigOne, I should preface with this: When I say "treating Duster unfairly", what I'm mostly referring to is trying to squeeze facts and proof out of him when he obviously can't. All of his ideas about the almighty "Disney" are just that - his ideas. To use his newest as an example - the "Disney change"... Yes, we all know there is actually no such thing as the Disney Change, and if we tried to pinpoint and define what it is that he means, we would probably never be able to. But why does that matter? The "Disney Change" is something that makes sense to him, and he believes that it is an essential part in creating a true "Disney movie." Even if it doesn't make sense to the rest of us, is it necessary to try and corner him into trying to actually give proof about it? Trying to make someone do something that they actually can not do, when you know full well that they can't do it, is treating them unfairly.
So with that said - Goliath, you sometimes get to the point where you start treating Duster "unfairly". However, Big One seems to be on a whole different level. Thus my original comment about you "not having anything" on Big One. While you, Goliath, try and get Duster to prove himself as a side note to your own argument, it seems that Big One's sole intention of being here is to "change Duster's way" or something. That is the biggest problem I have with him.
Now please don't get me wrong, I'm not at all defending every word that Duster says. As you mentioned, I'm aware that he has personally attacked some people (although he usually takes it back after everyone goes ape-shit), although I don't pretend to be aware of as many examples of it as some of you will be - I simply haven't been around here as long. So I'm not trying to be Duster's "White Knight" as Big One seems to think.
With that said, I do think that, just as you feel I've taken Big One's post out of context, a lot of people here take Duster's posts out of context. I think you're being overly-sensitive about comments like "you haven't read my reply carefully/you just don't understand me". You think it's patronizing, but all I see is simple stubbornness. Nothing offending.
As Divinity said, I think you're much too quick to dismiss someone as a drama queen. I'm not the only member here who agrees that Big One has come in here and acted rudely since day one. Now, as you and a few others pointed out, I can't speak for "everyone" (boy, I'll never do that again... I obviously didn't mean literally everyone), but you can't act like me and Divinity are the two crazies here that are the only ones thinking what we're saying.
I'm not taking anything personally, as both you and BigOne seem to think. I understand that this is forum about fairy tales. If I could have my way, we would never need to get into heated debates about these things. Not saying that debating over my favorite movies isn't enjoyable... but the fact that every single debate on this site gets out of hand... it just gets overly redundant. But there are people here that take everything so incredibly seriously or personally. When I see that happening, that's when I go from the average poster to one of the essay-writers. Because I feel that those people who take things so personally (Big One being the case in point at the moment) need to be reminded that this forum is supposed to be enjoyable. It's supposed to be a place where all of us can come and talk about our passion for Disney. When people start demanding facts to back up someone's opinion about a fairy tale movie, the forum immediately becomes less enjoyable; it instead becomes hostile. That's what has happened here. We have plenty of discussions all the time that Duster takes part in about the same types of things, and only once in a while does it get past the point of everyone lightly joking about it. But ever since Big One started his rants, this whole thread has gone to crap - because it is now a hostile environment.
Big One -
(In response to your post that was directed at me on page 3 - I'm not quoting everything individually)
People are very much allowed to argue. I've always encouraged it, surprisingly. But what I encourage is healthy arguing. Not backing someone into a corner when you know full well that they can't give you the response you're looking for. I'm not trying to be Duster's "White Knight" whatsoever... see my response to Goliath for more on that.
You're absolutely right that if Duster wants his opinion taken seriously, he needs to start giving more credible responses. However, just because his posts are not "credible" does not at all mean that they are offending the intelligence of anyone at all. What is the connection you're making here? I don't see how Duster not giving us an "actual" response is offending to anyone's intelligence. You aren't wrong to challenge him to give you an actual response - he ought to. But it's the way you're going about doing so that myself and other members (again, I understand I can't speak for "everyone") don't appreciate. You're coming down on Duster as if he has done something morally wrong by talking about his opinions of animated fairy tales. It's unnecessary, and it's creating a hostile environment in this thread.
I suppose I did fall for that line if you actually meant it in a joking manner. My bad in this case - I usually am good at picking up sarcasm and such.
Maybe I am taking the tone of your posts wrong... but the thing is, I'm not the only one doing so. And since more than one or two members are taking them that way, that means that's the way they are coming off. So it's not "my problem" that I'm taking your posts out of context. If I was the only one doing so, then yes. But since there are others, that means that the problem may actually lie with the way you are posting in the first place, whether you mean them to be nice, or sarcastic, or mean, or rude, or whatever the case may be. They aren't coming off as intended.
I never thought you were trying to "be like" Goliath or anyone else, and I never said that. It's the mere fact that you are taking the same route with Duster as Goliath does sometimes. But you do it in a much more intense manner.
Finally, I don't take offense to anything that's going on here. I simply want my carefree Tangled thread back. I want to come on here and be able to find news about the film without having to scroll through pages of essays (yes, I know I'm guilty myself now...). So no, I don't have any personal problems.
Finally finally - I just want to apologize for the "everyone thinks you're an asshole" comment. Although I certainly didn't mean it quite as literally as everyone took (although, ironically enough, you seem to be the one that doesn't have a problem with it), I know we're not supposed to make personal attacks here, and I certainly don't want to get banned or anything like that. So, sorry about that.
And sorry to everyone that this is so ridiculously long. Definitely the longest forum post I've ever had.
monorail91 wrote:I LOVE the second reprise of When Will My Life Begin...right up there with Menken's great reprises, like Belle and Part of Your World!
Oh gosh yeah... the second reprise of When Will My Life Begin gives me goosebumps. I was going to post it first, but there aren't THAT many reprises and I thought it was starting to seem like I was just listing a bunch. But yeah.. goosebumps.
pinkrenata wrote:Ooh, the darker colors look soooo much better. Much less Easter egg-y. You can actually see the prettiness of the design and all the detail.
Thanks! I actually attempted to go with the original colors at first, but it just wasn't doing it for me. She already has the fair skin and light hair; I felt darkening the dress to add some contrast worked well in this case.
I still wonder who had the final say on her dress colors for the film.
SWillie! wrote:EnigmaWing - NICE JOB on the rendering. Like, seriously... really nicely done.
Thank you very much.
Escapay wrote:I have a feeling that if we simply precede any word with "Disney", it'll instantly make it something more special than it normally is. At least for some people. Simply because it has the word "Disney" in front of it.
Disney Vacuum Cleaner
Disney Texting
Disney Carburetor
Disney Walking
Disney Fireplace
Disney Breathing
Disney Condom
Disney Lies
And Sunny Wing, loved your last picture. I had a feeling one would follow once I wrote "not so fresh".
Thanks. As usual I couldn't resist. And from now on I shall be known as disneyenigmawing. Wow, that's a mouthful. I already feel more special.
Oh, and I may have fun with this list later.
Disney's Divinity wrote:Oh, and I love that picture you did of Rapunzel, enigmawing! Her dress actually looks kind of beautiful there, and you definitely caught the look of the hair. Love the background, too.
Thanks! I really wish they hadn't gone for the pastel palette for her dress, it feels too much like they were just eager on squeezing her into the princess line. The hair was a bit of work, before I was able to add enough detail it looked like some weird fabric draped over her head. I almost left the background plain but I thought of adding the sun symbol at the last minute.
Big One wrote: Y'see the difference between Tangled and other medieval-fantasy Disney movies is that Tangled seems to be set in low fantasy rather than high fantasy, in a very Disney kind of way. I find this interesting cause low fantasy is usually stuff like the Song of Fire and Ice, not stuff from the average Disney movie. But if we really think about it, the setting in Tangled is actually kind of realistic. It's full of barbarians and thieves, there isn't any dragons, no talking animals (but they do have personality), no evil warlock overlords, and the only real fantasy element is Rapunzel's hair and the fact that magic exists in a very low-key form.
This is actually a very refreshing twist from standard Disney fantasyland movies, which usually have inspired locations from the real world but have things such as dwarves, god-like fairies, dragons, etc. Removing those aspects, kind of gives an audience an easy way into the character's places as Rapunzel and Flynn live in a world where a barbarian could kill or even rape them at any moment in the middle of their journey. Matter of fact, Mother Gothel encouraged Rapunzel not to go out into the world cause it was full of things like that.
It's really just things like that, that make Tangled one of the more finer stories Disney has done; and as the years go on I think it'll be more accepted by long-time fans even more-so than it is today.
8/10
You bring up such a good point! This movie is more "real" than most of the other stories. The only magic is in the hair and flower. Everything else feels very real. I think this is another reason I really love Tangled. I've never really liked the talking animals (except in Mermaid because only the mermaids seem to understand them. I figure it is a mermaid power).
I also agree with you about Flynn and Rapunzel. They are very much like Aladdin and Ariel. I think Flynn is not trying as hard as Aladdin, but they are both obsessed with riches and high living. Flynn seems more sincere from the start and isn't trying to be anyone other than who he is. He just doesn't realize what he wants from life until he meets Rapunzel.
Rapunzel is a lot like Ariel, except she is not as headstrong and you can tell she thinks about what others feel. She does take risks and she is exploring the world just like Ariel did on land, but she really is conflicted about her decisions and wants to be a good daughter. Ariel practically ran away to get what she wanted. Rapunzel's was more of an adventure which turned into an escape. She planned on returning to the tower until she put two and two together about who she was. Also, she really did love Gothel and I feel like Gothel did care for her too, but her obsession with living forever overpowers any thought of letting her daughter be free.
Disney's Divinity wrote: Oh, and about the fire scene you mentioned, and I've said this before, but that scene is total copy-and-paste from TP&TF. I mean, whether or not you agree if Tangled did it better (I don't, personally), there's no denying it plays on the same plot device. A couple at odds with one another sit and get to know one another by the fire, and realize there's more than meets the eye.
I didn't really see Flynn and Rapunzel's relationship as being that at odds with each other at all. They seemed to like each other from the start even if Flynn just wanted to be on his way with the tiara and neither really disliked each other like with TP&TF. From the moment Rapunzel left that tower we were seeing Flynn smiling at her in an admiring way and Rapunzel was looking to him as her guide. In TP&TF they openly disliked each other.
"you came for your darling, but the sweet bird sits no longer in the nest, and sings no more"
monorail91 wrote:I thought the movie was pretty fantastic...my one complaint/confusion is from when Rapunzel and Flynn escape from below the bar (The Ugly Duckling?)...why does it go out into the desert? It just came out of nowhere for me. I'm also not hot on the song "I Have a Dream", but fortunately "I See the Light" is great enough to make up for it.
Hi,
That wasn't a desert. It was either a rock quarry or mining operation. The underground passage was possibly part of the mining system and it lead out to an area where they had dug a deep cavern and made a dam in order to create a waterfall which gives better water pressure to blast rock away.
Another possibility was that the man made dam and water flow system was created to encourage upstream flow and water pressure.
Either way, the area was excavated out so it looked like a wasteland, but it was still part of the forest.
"you came for your darling, but the sweet bird sits no longer in the nest, and sings no more"
Sotiris, I can't reply to your PM ! Mine doesnt work sadly But I hadnt forgotten, just I was writing a report on it, but my computer broke and ate it up So just redoing it now, when I can. Sorry its taken so long !
Thank you for expressing an interest in it though !
atlanticaunderthesea wrote:Sotiris, I can't reply to your PM ! Mine doesnt work sadly But I hadnt forgotten, just I was writing a report on it, but my computer broke and ate it up So just redoing it now, when I can. Sorry its taken so long !
Thank you for expressing an interest in it though !
Rapunzel wrote:
I think Flynn is not trying as hard as Aladdin, but they are both obsessed with riches and high living. Flynn seems more sincere from the start and isn't trying to be anyone other than who he is. He just doesn't realize what he wants from life until he meets Rapunzel.
I kind of disagree with that. I mean, I agree that Flynn and Aladdin are fairly different from one another, but I actually feel the reverse. Aladdin never really seemed to care as much about money. He dreamed of being in a better place, of getting respect--of not being a street rat--but that was never a goal he really pursued, just something he wanted. Well, he did go to the Cave of Wonders, but that's pretty much the end of any I-want-to-be-rich storyline there might've been. Even later, when he becomes "Prince Ali," it's all about impressing Jasmine, and nothing about money.
Flynn, on the other hand, when we first meet him is all about money. Whereas Aladdin stole "only what [he] can't afford," Flynn steals out of greed, for appearances' sake. And he doesn't want to share what he has either (unlike Aladdin). I mean, I'm not quite sure how "he isn't trying to be anyone other than who he is" if he doesn't even use his real name and keeps his real identity a secret. I think he ends up having a similar character arc to Aladdin though, about being sincere and not lying about who he really is.
I mostly agree with you on Rapunzel and Ariel though. With Rapunzel, there's more internal conflict. Still, in Ariel's defense, I think Mermaid shows that Ariel does care about the people around her--she saves several lives throughout the movie. And she often seems to have a lot of friends that want to help her, and you don't get those by being mean and self-centered. Of course, you could argue that she treats Triton badly by running away, but--if I was her--I would just want to get away from him, too. A person's relationship with their parents is often very different than their relationships with others. Plus, Rapunzel's only human interaction before Flynn is Gothel, so she's not exactly in a "normal" situation like Ariel is--she doesn't think of herself as independent of her mother, because she's never been (and she's never seen other children leave the nest either).
I didn't really see Flynn and Rapunzel's relationship as being that at odds with each other at all. They seemed to like each other from the start even if Flynn just wanted to be on his way with the tiara and neither really disliked each other like with TP&TF. From the moment Rapunzel left that tower we were seeing Flynn smiling at her in an admiring way and Rapunzel was looking to him as her guide. In TP&TF they openly disliked each other.
Yeah, I don't think there's the same "I hate you!" attitude between Flynn and Rapunzel, but until the fire scene, Flynn really doesn't want to be there. He kind of has disdain for having to "babysit" Rapunzel and takes her to the bar to scare her. Rapunzel is just too excited to even care who she's with. But the fire scene does have the same function as in TP&TF--they learn more about each other, and open up to one another finally.
Listening to most often lately:
Ariana Grande ~ "we can't be friends (wait for your love)"
Ariana Grande ~ "imperfect for you"
Kacey Musgraves ~ "The Architect"
disneyboy20022 wrote:The Art of Princess and the Frog is still available....on Amazon...though I thought it went OOP too...odd
Yeah, hence my confusion. Furthermore, practically all of the "Art Of" books from recent years are still available on Amazon and other places. If it's simply that stock hasn't shifted, then fair enough, but I would assume that that argument would only work for the titles less likely to sell (such as Bolt, Pixar Short Films etc).
If that becomes the in-store price on release day, and we get a coupon, this title could end up being really cheap!
When coupons are available for new releases, are they issued as $10 or less? I think I remember a title receiving an $8 coupon.
Its also $19.99 at Best Buy... Thats a good price. I hope the coupon is good for both versions, but I have a feeling the coupon will only be good on the 3D combo pack (like A Christmas Carol last year).
I've really come to love this soundtrack so much.
And from now on I shall be known as disneyenigmawing. Wow, that's a mouthful. I already feel more special. 
But I hadnt forgotten, just I was writing a report on it, but my computer broke and ate it up 
Disney has to promote a much more family-friendly image these days.