Beauty & the Beast original colors - in upcoming platinu

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Marky_198
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Post by Marky_198 »

SpringHeelJack wrote:It may well be an audience's film, but the creative team certainly reserves the right to alter it. Why the hell shouldn't they?
Why the hell should they?

Obviously there are many people that don't like the film anymore (if you can actually speak of the same film)
Last edited by Marky_198 on Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Marky_198 »

[quote="
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Post by Rudy Matt »

Marky_198 wrote:
When they decide to release the finished product, it's not entirely their film anymore. From that moment it's also the audience's film.
Horsepoo. Your memories are yours. The only thing you have a right to is your right to buy another ticket. That's all. You don't own squat.

You certainly don't own the right to have movies placed in some sort of artistic carbonite preventing the original creative team from improving their film.

Get over yourself -- "Its my movie, too, because I paid for a ticket and I saw it!" What a joke!
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Post by CampbellzSoup »

uh...I think that's what he meant lol
Marky_198
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Post by Marky_198 »

Rudy Matt wrote:
Horsepoo. Your memories are yours. The only thing you have a right to is your right to buy another ticket. That's all. You don't own squat.

You certainly don't own the right to have movies placed in some sort of artistic carbonite preventing the original creative team from improving their film.

Get over yourself -- "Its my movie, too, because I paid for a ticket and I saw it!" What a joke!
Exactly, my memories are mine. And it's rude to not make the film available anymore.

Imagine Whitney Houston re-recording all her hits with her recent voice and all the original versions are banned from all the stores and will never be available anymore. She might like the new versions herself, and some people might like it too, but if they will be big hits is a totally different thing.

People have loved the songs (the film) they know for years and it became a part of their lives. You can't just change that.
And if people feel the need to change it, they should make BOTH versions available.

What if one of her hits was played on your wedding? And it would be impossible to ever hear it again, because it was on an old tape?
And the label only releases the new crappy versions?
Well, I think you just have to experience it to understand it.
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Post by Marky_198 »

"The only thing you have a right to is your right to buy another ticket"

Like a dvd version with the colors and depth we all know from the books, promo pics, official studio documents and laserdisc?

I know I have the right, but if I only had the opportunity........
That was taken away by Disney in a rude way.
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Post by Rudy Matt »

Exactly, my memories are mine. And it's rude to not make the film available anymore.
Yeah, its rude if you go to a concert and the exact same performance from your exact point of view that night isn't available to purchase on DVD afterwards. It's rude if you go see a play and that exact performance isn't available for you to relive.

Get over yourself!
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Post by Marky_198 »

Rudy Matt wrote:
Exactly, my memories are mine. And it's rude to not make the film available anymore.
Yeah, its rude if you go to a concert and the exact same performance from your exact point of view that night isn't available to purchase on DVD afterwards. It's rude if you go see a play and that exact performance isn't available for you to relive.

Get over yourself!
Apples and pears, recorded things and live performances........
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Post by CampbellzSoup »

Let's all get along guys
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Post by 2099net »

I'd just like to point out, changes in colour are common place on various media formats - it is impossible to determine which is correct and which is wrong for the majority. Even Disney films, when they were rolled out every 7 years or so. For all we know, each re-release could be on totally different film stock, from totally different chemicals with totally different properties.

Many of the early Technicolor films were changed to a different filmstock as the earlier filmstock was unstable and prone to decomposition. So the "original" colours for lots of early films may have been lost in the late 1940's/early 1950's.

As for more recent films, yes, colour differences are still common. Check out these DVDBeaver comparisons:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompar ... mother.htm
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompar ... lheart.htm
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompar ... hedark.htm
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare11/vampires.htm
etc.

There is often no "definitive" colour. Heck, perhaps of the many release prints of Sleeping Beauty, made on the same film stock, in the same year, but on different days probably had colour differences. And then you've got copies of copies for the process of adding different soundtracks for oversea's distribution (a lot of film has the soundtrack down the side of the image - see Fantasia).

Differences in colour timing happen all the time.

I'm really quite confused, because I doubt any film (except for newer digital films) ever had definitive colour schemes. Everything was down to so many individual factors - shooting, film stock, the chemical mix etc, I doubt anything ever could be "definitive".

At least Beauty and the Beast now, is being taken from its Digital source. Was it coloured because they knew it would look different on film stock though? No one here can say, because no one her knows. The director's do though, and they seem happy with the DVD. They asked for a 1.85 aspect ratio (which no other release of the movie on home video got), so you'd think they'd ask for the colours they wanted too.
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Post by Flanger-Hanger »

2099net wrote:At least Beauty and the Beast now, is being taken from its Digital source. Was it coloured because they knew it would look different on film stock though? No one here can say, because no one her knows. The director's do though, and they seem happy with the DVD. They asked for a 1.85 aspect ratio (which no other release of the movie on home video got), so you'd think they'd ask for the colours they wanted too.
Exactly. I'm sick of people blowing this DVD out of proportion to make it sound like it's worse than the Star Wars special editions. Hell, they even give you the option to watch the film with it's original running time, sequence order and not changed backgrounds. In addition to the Work in Progress version. How is that not taking the fans into consideration? It's more than George ever did. They could have just let the IMAX version be the only one included but they didn't. Just because no one complained about the colours until the DVD release, didn't mean they were not the "original" colours on the previous Laserdsic or VHS releases (this is true of all DAC).
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Post by Beast_enchantment »

Bigger images this time :P

Remember that the source for the OTV images is not as clear and sharp as the IMAX/DVD source, but we're discussing colours not clarity.


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Post by Marky_198 »

Beautiful!

The ones on the left have a lot of depth, they look so real, almost like a 3d film. The ones on the right look......well...like a generic cartoon.
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Post by Beast_enchantment »

Marky_198 wrote:Beautiful!

The ones on the left have a lot of depth, they look so real, almost like a 3d film. The ones on the right look......well...like a generic cartoon.

I knew you would agree! :D It's just getting the others to. :roll:
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Post by Jules »

Same Old Marky wrote:What if one of her hits was played on your wedding? And it would be impossible to ever hear it again, because it was on an old tape?
And the label only releases the new crappy versions?
If that's Ms. Houston's choice, then so be it. Give me the crappy songs, baby!
Still the the Same Old Marky wrote:Well, I think you just have to experience it to understand it.
What traumatizing chapter of life must I endure to achieve that level of empathy?
Marky, No More, No Less wrote:That was taken away by Disney in a rude way.
What? Iger snatched your old VHS copy of Beauty and the Beast amidst curses and ejaculated into said video cassette's sensuous magnetic spools? That'd be rude ...
Tinned Soup wrote:Let's all get along guys.
No! I'm having too much fun! :wink:
netty wrote:Many of the early Technicolor films were changed to a different filmstock as the earlier filmstock was unstable and prone to decomposition. So the "original" colours for lots of early films may have been lost in the late 1940's/early 1950's.
Are you talking about the disintegration problems that faced nitrate-based film?
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Post by KubrickFan »

The both look crap to me, neither looks definitive. And there is a definitive version, the digital CAPS files. I thought I saw an HD sample (could be a screenshot) of the ballroom scene. It looked better than the dvd, to my eyes. So, if the IMAX version doesn't have the brightened colors, the next dvd and of course the Blu-Ray should look fantastic.
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Post by Flanger-Hanger »

Beast_enchantment wrote:
Marky_198 wrote:Beautiful!

The ones on the left have a lot of depth, they look so real, almost like a 3d film. The ones on the right look......well...like a generic cartoon.

I knew you would agree! :D It's just getting the others to. :roll:
Perhaps providing accurate information and well reasoned ideas instead of posting blurry screenshots and over the topic meaningless opinion might do the trick in convincing everyone that you know unequivocally what the "original" look of the film was. :wink:

I'll agree that they look different (no kidding) but until you post images format the definitive CAPS files and anything said by the directors that the DVD is terrible or against it I'll take their opinion over yours anyday. Plus, going to all this effort will not change my opinion that the film itself is completely undeserving of it's praise.
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Post by drfsupercenter »

Hello? They're the filmmakers! It's their film, not yours. I don't think Gary Trousdale and Kirk Wise need permission from you to edit their film.
Well, imagine if whatever art gallery that has the original Mona Lisa decided one day that there were some mistakes in it... so they decided to just make a few changes here and there.
Same concept here.

Of course it has mistakes, nothing's perfect! But what they're selling on DVD isn't even the original version of the film!
Pfft. No one in this thread has demonstrated a single shred of proof that the direct to digital CAPS files are not the intended look of the film by the people who made the movie. Until you do so, I suggest you table such presuppositions about my "vision".
They aren't the digital CAPS files. They mention the movie being "restored" more than once in the booklet that comes with it, so it's very obvious they took the original files and changed them.

Plus I seem to recall seeing some documentaries for the IMAX version where the filmmakers plainly stated that they've modified it "to look better in large format" or whatever... well whose TV is the size of an IMAX? It may have looked amazing and realistic on such a large screen but as others are stating, it looks 2D and lifeless on a normal sized TV.
Imagine Whitney Houston re-recording all her hits with her recent voice and all the original versions are banned from all the stores and will never be available anymore. She might like the new versions herself, and some people might like it too, but if they will be big hits is a totally different thing.
There are artists who have done this. One that comes to mind is Culture Beat - I was looking for a legal music download of their single Mr. Vain (hey, I actually gave buying music a chance and it disgraced me!!) and all that was available on iTunes was a "Re-loaded" version. Where it's the original artist singing the song quite some years later. And last time I checked the majority of feedback was negative, asking for the original. (And I'm sure the people who left positive feedback didn't hear the original or aren't aware the one they bought wasn't it)
I'd just like to point out, changes in colour are common place on various media formats - it is impossible to determine which is correct and which is wrong for the majority. Even Disney films, when they were rolled out every 7 years or so. For all we know, each re-release could be on totally different film stock, from totally different chemicals with totally different properties.
What you're saying is correct - however, Beauty and the Beast (along with all the other ones made using CAPS) have digital masters. Last time I checked, digital colors never fade or lose quality over the years.
And look at the DVD of Mulan. The newer 2-disc release is a direct encode from CAPS, and I haven't heard any complaints about the coloring of it. Though oddly enough, whoever did the UD review was saying it wasn't as amazing as the digitally restored ones... you obviously can't digitally restore a digital film, there's no point! :roll:
Exactly. I'm sick of people blowing this DVD out of proportion to make it sound like it's worse than the Star Wars special editions. Hell, they even give you the option to watch the film with it's original running time, sequence order and not changed backgrounds. In addition to the Work in Progress version. How is that not taking the fans into consideration? It's more than George ever did. They could have just let the IMAX version be the only one included but they didn't. Just because no one complained about the colours until the DVD release, didn't mean they were not the "original" colours on the previous Laserdsic or VHS releases (this is true of all DAC).
That original version is still far from the original. The "stuttering Beast" line is still removed, and I'm sure there are other changes as well. Plus, the "work in progress" version was also cropped from the way it was originally shown... and since they tried to cram 3 versions on the same disc the quality isn't too good for any of them. (And really, that "OTV" is just the IMAX one and the DVD player is told to skip over Human Again. Trust me, I've decompiled the DVD... there's no separate set of files for the OTV version.)
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Post by Beast_enchantment »

Flanger-Hanger wrote:
Beast_enchantment wrote:
I knew you would agree! :D It's just getting the others to. :roll:
Perhaps providing accurate information and well reasoned ideas instead of posting blurry screenshots and over the topic meaningless opinion might do the trick in convincing everyone that you know unequivocally what the "original" look of the film was. :wink:

I'll agree that they look different (no kidding) but until you post images format the definitive CAPS files and anything said by the directors that the DVD is terrible or against it I'll take their opinion over yours anyday. Plus, going to all this effort will not change my opinion that the film itself is completely undeserving of it's praise.
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Post by Flanger-Hanger »

drfsupercenter wrote:That original version is still far from the original. The "stuttering Beast" line is still removed, and I'm sure there are other changes as well. Plus, the "work in progress" version was also cropped from the way it was originally shown... and since they tried to cram 3 versions on the same disc the quality isn't too good for any of them. (And really, that "OTV" is just the IMAX one and the DVD player is told to skip over Human Again. Trust me, I've decompiled the DVD... there's no separate set of files for the OTV version.)
Note I said running time, sequence order and not changed backgrounds. I'm well aware of how the seamless branching works on the DVD, but that still doesn't change the fact that the IMAX restoration is the one everyone is going to get from now on (especially since it is already meant to look good in HD and therefore Disney will have t do nothing to it to impress Blu-ray owners).
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