Walt Disney Treasures Wave 5 DVDs Press Release

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Post by Pyoko »

2099net wrote:Ultimately, it's impractical to expect 4-5 hours of fully restored footage for the price/print run combination. It's obvious that the DVD release is simply a way of taking advantage of an on-going restoration project rather than the reason for the restoration in the first place, as it is with the Loony Tunes releases too.
This may be true, but if they're just going to take advantage of the situation, why not make the most of it? They are marketing the Treasures to collectors, who want complete sets of the original films uncensored, unedited, in chronological order and presented in the best quality possible. I'm fairly sure most of them are also willing to wait and pay for it. If they're going through them all anyway, why not just wait until the actual shorts have been restored before putting them on the discs?

At least I would much rather wait another half a year for better restorations than get everything in inferior quality now, now, now and then have to wait another 10-15 years for a better release on the next format. And if people like to come up with wacky conspiracy theories then let them, because in the end it will not matter. Those who were planning to get them in the first place are going to do so anyway. People like to whine a lot when unfortunate situations arise, but I've never heard of anyone boycotting something they really wanted just because it was delayed.

As for the live-action TV shows, if people are not that interested and are not buying them, then why bother releasing them now at all? Maybe it would be better to wait or give them their own "Classic TV" label? Or maybe they're just a means to keep the Treasures line from thinning out when they can't keep up the restoration work for the shorts? I don't know, the latter doesn't seem entirely impossible. I can honestly say that I wouldn't buy anything if a wave consisted only of these, but I wouldn't be mad or anything. If it meant that I got perfect sets of pristine shorts the next year then it's all for the better.
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Post by Pyoko »

MK Sharp wrote:I've never cared about all the mucking about with the tins and the bands and what-have-you, maintaining that the content is all important. Now that the content is suffering, I'm annoyed. I would have happily waited if delaying the release date could have brought us properly restored versions of these films.
Agreed. If they'd lose the tins entirely I'd be very annoyed (mostly because I payed way too much on eBay to get the tin-versions :P), but I'm not bothered by the change in DVD cases or bands or print on the back.
Perhaps deathiemouse can explain this one to me:
As we know, film is 24 frames per second and NTSC video is 30 fps. So normally if you transfer film to NTSC tape, some of the video frames are composites of two film frames. On DVD, however, if transferred correctly, only the 24 actual film frames are stored on the DVD, and the other 6 frames are interpolated on the fly by the DVD player. So my question is, how are films scanned for DVD mastering? Is there a special 24fps tape format?

(If this is too technical for some folks, I apologise.)

The reason I mention all this is because I'm assuming that if the Wave 5 DVDs were using old TV transfers, they'd have the double imaging on certain frames, which they don't. So I'm guessing they're fresh transfers of crappy prints. Alternately, I could be talking through my hat...
While it would mean a bit more work, if the interlaced video transfer is not entirely messed up it is possible to get the original film frames back by means of inverse telecine, before throwing them into the DVD encoder. I don't have the new discs yet so I can't say for sure, however it's entirely possible that they're just from crappy prints because they didn't bother with this on previous discs. Yes, the first waves were actually not perfect in this respect because a few of the shorts were from unrestored video/TV transfers (with double fields and all). Mainly the "easter egg" ones on SS and MMILC1 as well as "Mickey's Trailer" on MMILC1.
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Elfego Baca

Post by Bill W »

It seems most here have been ignoring Legendary Heros and Spin and Marty. I understand how most people are more attracted to the vintage animated shorts, but don't just assume that because you have not seen or heard of Elfego Baca, the Swamp Fox, or Spin & Marty that it is not worth picking up.

I purchased all four treasures and have so far watched about half the rarities set, a few Donald shorts, and all but one episode of Elefago Baca on the Legendary Heros set. I've yet to open the Spin & Marty set. I have to agree with the majority that some of the Rarities and Donald shorts appear to be unrestored. No Sails didn't look to hot, and neither did the Humphrey the Bear shorts. But for the most part, I'm happy to have these cartoons.

I was anticipating the Swamp Fox the most because my dad really enjoyed watching it as a kid. I had never heard of Elfego Baca, and neither had my dad. I've now watched the first two episodes of Elefago Baca and have thoroughly enjoyed the series. The acting is top notch and the stories are well written and very enjoyable. I'll definitely be watching the third episode tonight. I've also enjoyed the two bonus features on this set: an interview with Robert Loggia and the documentary about the heros of the American frontier. I highly recommend this set to everyone who is a fan of Walt Disney, particularly his early live-action films and Davy Crockett.

Now, I've got a question that I'm hoping someone could help me with. At the tail end of the 2nd Elfego Baca episode (Four Down and Five Lives to Go), there were previews for Texas John Slaughter and "The Pigeon That Worked a Miracle". If I remember correctly, it said Texas John Slaughter was in 2 weeks and "The Pigeon" was next week. However, upon reviewing the episode listing from Bill Cotter's site (1958-1959 season), Elfego Baca Part 2 first aired on 10/17/58, followed the next week by "Rusty and the Falcon" on 10/24/58. "The Pigeon That Worked a Miracle" actually aired one week prior on 10/10/58, or one week after Elefaco Baca Part 1 (10/3/58 ). Texas John Slaughter did premier two weeks after Elfego Baca Part 1 on 10/31/58. TV.com also reports the same episode ordering as Bill Cotter.

So my question is, why are they advertising for a show that has already aired? Is it possible that the preview for "The Pigeon that Worked a Miracle" was actually part of the Elfego Baca Part 1 episode? Or were the air dates changed at the last minute. The only preview I remember at the end of Elefego Baca Part 1 was for Part 2. Anyone have any ideas on this? I know Jebsdad is pretty knowlegable about this vintage stuff.
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Post by Scaramanga »

You know ... if Disney were to put out a press release stating they'll only be releasing Treasures every 2 years because they can't keep up with the restoration work I'd be perfectly ok with that. I'd rather wait 2 years to get top notch stuff (the way we used to get it) then get sub-standard releases on a yearly basis.

Another thing: while I am not interested in Spin & Marty, I was very much pleased with Elfego Baca and The Swamp Fox and I have to agree that in a way they're underappreciated. You know ... personally I'd hate to see an entire wave of Legendary Heroes cause that'd mean I'd have to buy em all. At least this time around I didn't get Spin & Marty and save a couple of bucks ;-)

No matter how you try to explain it, there is no valid excuse for the sub-standard quality we get here.

Somehow I can't help but wondering if the fact they've released 2 platinum's (Bambi & Cinderella) this year has anything to do with all this. Restoring those features must have taken a lot of money and time ... so they have to cut back somewhere else ? :(

Somehow I just can't help but wonder what's gonna be next ? An old print for Lady and the Tramp ? :shock:

Sorry, but somehow it never even crossed my mind Disney would do something like this, not since they introduced us to the world of perfectly restored animated features with Snow White

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Post by blaing »

Loomis wrote:
blaing wrote:I think it might be a player problem.

Sorry I cant help you further.
I thought so at first too, but there is a problem with BOTH players. So I guess it is the disc. I hope so, and I hope I am able to get a suitable replacement.
Now that I've had a closer look, It does seem to be taking longer than normal for the menu selection to activate.

Not too good. :(
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Re: Elfego Baca

Post by jebsdad »

Bill W wrote:Now, I've got a question that I'm hoping someone could help me with. At the tail end of the 2nd Elfego Baca episode (Four Down and Five Lives to Go), there were previews for Texas John Slaughter and "The Pigeon That Worked a Miracle". If I remember correctly, it said Texas John Slaughter was in 2 weeks and "The Pigeon" was next week. However, upon reviewing the episode listing from Bill Cotter's site (1958-1959 season), Elfego Baca Part 2 first aired on 10/17/58, followed the next week by "Rusty and the Falcon" on 10/24/58. "The Pigeon That Worked a Miracle" actually aired one week prior on 10/10/58, or one week after Elefaco Baca Part 1 (10/3/58 ). Texas John Slaughter did premier two weeks after Elfego Baca Part 1 on 10/31/58. TV.com also reports the same episode ordering as Bill Cotter.

So my question is, why are they advertising for a show that has already aired? Is it possible that the preview for "The Pigeon that Worked a Miracle" was actually part of the Elfego Baca Part 1 episode? Or were the air dates changed at the last minute. The only preview I remember at the end of Elefego Baca Part 1 was for Part 2. Anyone have any ideas on this? I know Jebsdad is pretty knowlegable about this vintage stuff.
I haven't yet watched the Elfego Baca / Swamp Fox DVD set, so I haven't seen the previews you are referring to. Once I find time to watch it (it is far down the list of numerous other DVD/VHS I have not yet watched), I'll see if I can give a more exact idea of what happened.

My best guess right now is that the previews were mixed up for the original showings back in 1958. I used to have several other shows that had the wrong previews at the end, when the schedule changed at the last minute. This was especially prevalent when the Disney Anthology TV series was with the network ABC 1954-1961. ABC was a "very minor network" at that time (compared to NBC and CBS) and last-minute schedule changes were common.

The above is what I remember from research done years ago. I haven't done any research on the old Disney Anthology TV shows for several years (since I helped Bill Cotter with his book), so I may not be remembering as clearly as I should.

I hope that helps some. I'll add to this info later after I've watched the Elfego Baca shows, but it may be months before I get to it. I bought the Legendary Heroes DVD set because I consider them important historically as far as the variety of programs the Disney Anthology TV series contained. But I never found the western/frontier/early Americana shows that interesting for me personally.
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Post by TM2-Megatron »

I got a reply from Leonard Maltin today, so here it is:
Hi...

Thanks for your thoughtful note about the newest Disney Treasures.

The truth of the matter is that the folks at Disney don't allow me to participate in any of the preparation of materials for the actual DVD releases, so I don't get to check which masters are being used, and I am forced to trust their "good judgment." Sometimes, if I know of something I can warn them about, like the aspect ratios on the early-talkie Mickey Mouse cartoons, or not using refilmed end credits for the Disneyland TV shows, I make a point of bringing that up. Otherwise, they consider it their turf, not mine. (I wouldn't think I'd have to remind them that TOOT WHISTLE had already been remastered for the Fantasia disc...)

I do know that they have read some of the negative response to the newest DVDs and I'm hoping that this will send a red alert for preparation of Wave 6, which is now in its earliest stages. And I can promise you that I'll be nagging them about future transfers on the CinemaScope titles.

All I can do at this point is be more demanding for the future releases and hope that they'll stay on the ball.

cheers,

Leonard Maltin
At least it seems that Disney is paying attention to some of the negative feedback, and hopefully it'll get them to stay on track for future releases.
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Re: Elfego Baca

Post by Bill W »

jebsdad wrote:I haven't yet watched the Elfego Baca / Swamp Fox DVD set, so I haven't seen the previews you are referring to. Once I find time to watch it (it is far down the list of numerous other DVD/VHS I have not yet watched), I'll see if I can give a more exact idea of what happened.

My best guess right now is that the previews were mixed up for the original showings back in 1958. I used to have several other shows that had the wrong previews at the end, when the schedule changed at the last minute. This was especially prevalent when the Disney Anthology TV series was with the network ABC 1954-1961. ABC was a "very minor network" at that time (compared to NBC and CBS) and last-minute schedule changes were common.

The above is what I remember from research done years ago. I haven't done any research on the old Disney Anthology TV shows for several years (since I helped Bill Cotter with his book), so I may not be remembering as clearly as I should.

I hope that helps some. I'll add to this info later after I've watched the Elfego Baca shows, but it may be months before I get to it. I bought the Legendary Heroes DVD set because I consider them important historically as far as the variety of programs the Disney Anthology TV series contained. But I never found the western/frontier/early Americana shows that interesting for me personally.
Thanks for your reply. Whenever you get to it. From some of your other posts that I've read, it seems that you're more interested in the vintage cartoons than the vintage live action. I came across one thread of yours where you detailed out all the animation from about 150 "Disneyland" episodes. That must have taken some work. I assume you had taped those shows off of the Disney Channel back when they had the Vault Disney program.

I've now watched all three episodes of Elfego Baca and have really enjoyed it. I wish I had the other seven to watch. "Elfego Baca: Attorney at Law" wasn't as good as the first two in episodes, but still fun to watch. It was a little slow for the first 15 minutes, but there were some good action sequences in the second half of the show. I can't say I'm a big fan of Annette Funicello, and I think she actually detracted from the episode.

By the way, for fans of the Walt Disney introductions, the introduction to "Elfego Baca: Four Down and Five Lives to Go" has got to be one of the best ever!
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Post by Pyoko »

Thanks for posting his reply, TM2! At least Maltin seems like a really sensible guy, hopefully he can whack some sense into those in charge of the technical content of the DVDs. :) Though even if they get back on track for the next wave it'll be a bit disappointing to have these sets mar the otherwise near-perfect presentation of the rest of the collection, and I really wanted to see a completely restored version of Ferdinand too. :cry:
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Post by dvdjunkie »

What's wrong with Ferdinand?

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Post by Pyoko »

Well, were there any shorts on these sets (apart from the WWII ones) that were restored to the same degree as the ones in previous sets? Judging by the screenshot in the review it looks like it's suffering from some colour/brightness fluctuation where the blue sky is a lot darker closer to the edge. Of course the picture is small and I could be completely wrong, so if anyone could confirm that it has in fact undergone the same serious restoration that we've seen on previous Treasures, that would make me a happy man. :)
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Post by 2099net »

Hello. Me again.

If you look at this page it says (RE: Bambi restoration)
The first release under the studio’s new Restoration Initiative program, the film underwent more than a year’s worth of renovations to clean up the picture, color and sound...
That's right. Over a year! And work started in Early 2003! That's one hell of a lead time. And that's for a 70 odd minute film. Just a little over an hour. I'll admit I don't have the new Animated Treasures yet, but based on other years', the run-time is likely to be 4 hours or more. That's over twice the length, and if restored to the same level of care as Bambi et al, would be 2 - 3 years work. Probably a lot more, as research finding the best elements woud presumably take longer, being as multiple sources of multiple shorts would need to be considered.

Then you have to multiply that by 2, and you get an amazing 6 years work for the animated content in each wave.

However, I don't think anyone has done Bambi like restorations on any of the Treasure's content. Not even On the Front Lines which was delayed, supposedly for restoration purposes. Bambi is the ultimate restoration with today's technology. And they're not restoring Bambi for it's DVD release, but for the era of High Definition and also, because Disney realises they need to restore it to keep it.

Quality on the previous waves was good, but most of the shorts were probably taken off previous home video transfers without much (if any) additional clean-up.

The exceptions to this are most likely Mickey Mouse in Black and White 2 and On the Front Lines. The former could have been worked on as a general restoration project when the original Mickey Mouse Black and White LD set was released (but not released as a second volume due to poor sales of the first) and the latter, with many of the shorts and the feature not having been seen for many years, were restored at the time, which explains the year's delay and it probably explains why they look better than other shorts in other waves (they were restored with more modern methods).

As for this wave, one of the tins is called "Rarities" which probably means some of the shorts haven't had a lot of tv or home video exposure before, which most likely means older or even no restorations in the past.

I don't really know enough about the situation, but remember for Bambi they had to go to the Library of Congress to get the negative. There's no reason to expect the animated short's negatives are experiencing the same deterioration, and these are unlikely to be kept anywhere but at Disney. Disney has a strong reputation for archiving their work, but no company can be perfect. Perhaps, the negatives for No Sail kept at Disney just simply aren't in the best of condition in the first place?

I'm not saying no restoration can be done on the new releases. Restoration can come in many forms, from colour correction to quickly digitally painting out major marks and blemishes to even just putting the image through a digital filter (which can have mixed results). But anyone expecting 'Bambi' level restoration is bound to be disappointed, when you're getting the sets for less than $25 on the street (which lets say Disney gets a keeps $15, limits their income per set to only $1.875m)
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Post by Scaramanga »

Pyoko wrote:Well, were there any shorts on these sets (apart from the WWII ones) that were restored to the same degree as the ones in previous sets?
Nope, none of them are anywhere near as good as to the previous restoration jobs.

PS. Thanks for posting Maltin's reply TM2 ... somehow this makes me feel at least a bit better :D
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Post by Mayhem »

At least he seems on our side and willing to listen to criticism (that of course) isn't his fault to be able to try and get things done better for future issues.
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Post by Stinky Pete »

TM2-Megatron wrote:I got a reply from Leonard Maltin today, so here it is:
Hi...

Thanks for your thoughtful note about the newest Disney Treasures.

...I do know that they have read some of the negative response to the newest DVDs and I'm hoping that this will send a red alert for preparation of Wave 6, which is now in its earliest stages. And I can promise you that I'll be nagging them about future transfers on the CinemaScope titles.

All I can do at this point is be more demanding for the future releases and hope that they'll stay on the ball.

cheers,

Leonard Maltin
Has anyone heard of what will be included in wave 6? Surely someone has heard some insider information.
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Post by Pluto Region1 »

Loomis wrote:
blaing wrote:I think it might be a player problem.

Sorry I cant help you further.
So I guess it is the disc. I hope so, and I hope I am able to get a suitable replacement.
This might be just enough to get me to actually open the shrink wrap and try one out.... horrors, I've never actually opened any of my all brand new Tins that I've been collecting since mid-October. I just assumed all DVDs work, I have a whole bunch of DVDs actually that I've never played; some I bought more than 2 years ago. Obviously too late to return any of those.... Just goes to show how little I know about this stuff.

Of course maybe both players are dirty or the disk is just dirty?
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Post by deathie mouse »

Pluta wrote:This might be just enough to get me to actually open the shrink wrap and try one out.... horrors, I've never actually opened any of my all brand new Tins that I've been collecting since mid-October. I just assumed all DVDs work, I have a whole bunch of DVDs actually that I've never played; some I bought more than 2 years ago.
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Post by ichabod »

I wanted to add my 2 cents to this discussion, I've been meaning to for ages but have been really busy!

A lot of you seem to be criticising this wave because the restoration is not up to scratch, and all I would like to ask is "Have any of you actualy been through the previous waves recently in their entirity?"

Now when I first started collecting the Treasures I was so amazed at the DVDs and DVD was so new that the quality of the print didn't even come into the equation. After recently (and when I say recently I mean over the past 4 months) watching every Treasures DVD right across all 4 waves including bonus features, all I can say is that I think some of you have got your rose tinted glasses on!

Some of the shorts on previous waves are plagued with dirt, more than either of the new 2 are! Both the B+W Mickey's are the biggest culprits, but Silly Symphonies is a big contender too! I really couldn't believe I was watching the same DVD when i viewed it recently, there was a lot of grain and dull colours on more than just a couple of shorts! Mickey in Living color vol 1 also had a couple of shorts that were less than spectacular. After watching the Disney Rarities set, all I can say is "Yes, I agree some of the shorts could look better, but at the same time, I do not feel it is as bad as some volumes from previous waves"!
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Post by Pluto Region1 »

ichabod wrote: .....watching every Treasures DVD right across all 4 waves including bonus features, all I can say is that I think some of you have got your rose tinted glasses on!

Some of the shorts on previous waves are plagued with dirt, more than either of the new 2 are! Both the B+W Mickey's are the biggest culprits, but Silly Symphonies is a big contender too! I really couldn't believe I was watching the same DVD when i viewed it recently, there was a lot of grain and dull colours on more than just a couple of shorts! Mickey in Living color vol 1 also had a couple of shorts that were less than spectacular. After watching the Disney Rarities set, all I can say is "Yes, I agree some of the shorts could look better, but at the same time, I do not feel it is as bad as some volumes from previous waves"!
Well then this is all VERY distressing - you know it is time for a pretend lecture here to Disney: This is basically YOUR legacy, YOUR BIG MONEY MAKER and look how you are neglecting these priceless treasures!

Like I said, I read this big thing about Disney archives somewhere on the internet and Disney has an archival department that went to study with the Getty Museum on how to restore this stuff. The current Disney employees had found that sometime many years ago (the 1950s?) Disney had put a bunch of their old cartoons into ice cream containers for storage(!) and so they learned the top restoration techniques used by the Getty Museum and launched a restoration which was to have been concluded sometime in 2004. But it seems if they are releasing these old films onto the Disney Treasures series in the condition you are all reporting, then they either had a big funding cut in the restoration budget or we've all got better TVs now that are just showing too much detail....

(it looks like you guys were discussing this quality issue in depth 2 or 3 pages back - I'll have to go back and read those posts which I somehow missed)

I would think that over time if they don't attend to these films, that the damage would become permanent, would it not? (a question for Deathie here?) :?
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Post by 2099net »

Pluto Region1 wrote: I would think that over time if they don't attend to these films, that the damage would become permanent, would it not? (a question for Deathie here?) :?
I'm sure Disney are working on restoring the cartoons, but as I said before, if you take Bambi as an example, it would take well over 6 years (probably closer to 10) to restore all the animated contents of each wave to the same standard. It's simply not practical to expect it.
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