Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

[moviefan12]

Glad to see him finally open up and admit why they changed the name. Still, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of my second favorite Disney film of all time. Do I think it would've done as well, if they'd called it Rapunzel. I don't know. The name is probably in my opinion, the last thing I think about when looking at upcoming features. Unless they are god awful like The Nut Job. No, what turned me off Tangled at first wasn't the name but rather the trailers were just so bad and that is an issue I had with the Frozen trailers. But it was Tangled, it wasn't even worse to the point that I didn't want to see the movie because of the marketing for Tangled. I hated the trailer and that godawful Teaser poster of Rapunzel and Flynn tangled up in her hair. Seriously, why couldn't they have used the Floating Light poster to promote the film. That poster is just gorgeous. Though, I still think the Japanese poster for Tangled is the best one. This is just a problem, I've noticed in general that there seems to be a problem with marketing at Disney as of late because most of the early trailers for their films don't really tell you anything about the movie. I will at least give Tangled's teaser this, over the Frozen teaser. At least it focused on the main characters. Even with all of this said, I'm glad I saw this movie in the theaters as it made me fall in love with Disney all over again and more importantly, introduced to me to one of my all time favorite characters being Rapunzel. I mean, my laptop background, is Rapunzel and Flynn. My phone wallpaper is the Japanese poster for Tangled and my Ipad background is a picture of Rapunzel. So in a way, I grew to love this movie for what it was and yeah, I know I shouldn't hold the marketing at fault but they seriously need to do a better job.

[disneyprincess11]

About time they finally admitted it He could as well admit the same thing to Frozen! Hopefully, this revelation will change the title for Giants!

[MovieMan995]

That's always good to know. I had the idea that it was a marketing strategy from the beginning, but now it's a lot better now in the open.

[Atlantica]

Jeepers, finally admitting it! Makes all their "Oh no no no it was a group, creative decision to poop all over the name of our movie" look even more farcical. We all knew what Disney were doing; it was a shame it's taken this long to admit it!!

[Sotiris]

Glenn Slater, in a new interview, revealed that Stephen Schwartz was initially brought on as the lyricist for Tangled but he was removed because he wanted the film to be set in Russia! Such a shame. Schwartz would have brought a much needed element of sophistication to the project.

He also said that the reason they picked Menken was because the movie needed to go into production as soon as possible and Alan had a reputation for writing musicals very quickly. How disrespectful. They brought him onto the project not because of his legacy and talent but because he writes fast. I bet if he didn't they wouldn't have picked him.

Menken and Slater were told that the filmmakers had a very clear idea of what they wanted to do and their job was not to come up with new ideas but to simply execute the ideas the filmmakers already had. They felt their hands were tied, they were under pretty severe time constraints and half of what they were working on was thrown out. He also said that instead of "I See the Light" they had initially written a big, soaring ballad but the directors rejected it because it was "too Broadway". After they had written "I See the Light" Glenn wanted to rewrite some of the lyrics but the directors wouldn't let him.

I knew the filmmakers were to blame for the lackluster songs in the movie. It was clear from some of the interviews Menken gave when was doing press for Tangled. It's just so frustrating. The music could have been amazing. What a lost opportunity. And all of this because the directors were stubborn and clueless about musicals and the management didn't want another conventional musical because they thought it wouldn't appeal to contemporary audiences.

[Atlantica]

Wow ….. I'm slightly shocked by this. I didn't know the filmmakers were quite like that; do they mean just the directors, or the whole creative team ?

I enjoyed the music that we got; I love 'I See The Light', and it being embraced as a Classic Disney ballad.

I dont, however, enjoy hearing about Disneys treatment of Menken; why have they seemingly turned on him for no good reason ? Do they quite understand he gave them Part Of Your World, Beauty & the Beast, A Whole New World, Colours of the Wind ….. and hugely underrated classics like (I Won't Say) I'm In Love, Heavens Light / Hellfire among others …..why is he being treated this way ? Isn't he the most Oscar winning person ever ?

[Old Fish Tale]

I'm sad to read that, but I still think the soundtrack was excellent. The reprise of 'When Will My Life Begin' has to be one of my favourite songs ever!

[DisneyFan09]

What a pity. I've said this before, but I'll say it again; The music in "Tangled" was pretty lackluster. "I See The Light" was the best song in the movie and right up in front with the best Menken ballads. "Healing Incarnation" was fine. Otherwise, the rest of the songs were lackluster.

[disneyprincess11]

Wow, Stephen Schwartz. What a big diva! Why would Rapunzel be in Russia? It's clear that it is classically in Germany. If he wanted a Russian princess, he should have done Anastasia. To drop out a movie because of its setting is absurd. It's show business, dude. They hire you and you cater to the director's needs. I would prefer Schwartz much more to Slater. I always wondered why he wasn't chosen. Well, there's my answer.

I really hope Nathan Greno gives the Lopezes (it's pretty clear from that Disney World video that they were talking about Giants) the freedom and creativity they all deserve. And I'm so sorry that WDAS is treating Alan Menken like utter crap lately. If Menken walks out of them, that's their fault.

[UmbrellaFish]

Isn't he the most Oscar winning person ever ?

Actually, that would be Mr. Walt Disney himself, with twenty-two Oscars.

[ce1ticmoon]

The songs in Tangled certainly weren't the strongest in the canon, but I certainly don't think they're as bad as many people make them out to be. Conversely, I find the songs in Frozen to be overpraised, and I say that as someone who has listened to those songs endlessly. Neither has a songtrack as strong as the strongest films from the 90s, but both have songs that are miles ahead of the songs in something like, say, Mulan.

My biggest problem with the songs in Tangled were the lyrics. For example, musically, I See the Light was a great piece that suited the moment, but the lyrics were pretty bland and uncreative. Not that Disney musicals have never had this problem previously... Pocahotas had some cringe-worthy lyrics (with Steven Schwarz working on them), though that was more due to the fact that they were about as subtle as a flying brick ("They're not like you and me / Which means they must be evil!" I mean, come on! ). But going back to I See The Light, overall, I think it works, and I'm not sure they needed a sweeping Broadway-esque ballad there. Disney musicals have never been musicals in the conventional sense anyway. I See The Light is intimate, yet has some scope, and works well in the context of the film.

And I'm not saying this is the case here, but sometimes the best work can be done under the worst circumstances and constraints. And let's be honest, most of the modern Disney musicals have not allowed the creators to work in an entirely free environment with as much time as they need.

Do I think the songwriters were able to work under the ideal conditions? No. Do I think the songs could have been better? Yes. Would I have liked to see the songwriters able to spread their wings a little more? Yes. But all things considered, I find Tangled to be one of the higher-tiered films in the canon and the best of the Lasseter years (though it's a close call with Wreck-It Ralph). You can't always win everything. It turned out a great film, so I can't really find myself being too enraged about what's been revealed here.

[Mach Full Force]

I really hope Nathan Greno gives the Lopezes (it's pretty clear from that Disney World video that they were talking about Giants)

Concerning the video in question... Did they even mention it was something specifically for Disney? It could be an unrelated Broadway musical for all we know about. I really don't want to see the Lopezes providing songs for another Disney fairy tale movie; there are tons of talented Broadway composers/songwriters around, why not get one of them instead? Or, for that matter, get Alan Menken to be the composer again?

[Disney's Divinity]

I knew the filmmakers were to blame for the lackluster songs in the movie. It was clear from some of the interviews Menken gave when was doing press for Tangled. It's just so frustrating. The music could have been amazing. What a lost opportunity. And all of this because the directors were stubborn and clueless about musicals and the management didn't want another conventional musical because they thought it wouldn't appeal to contemporary audiences.

I agree, I've known for quite a while the directors were to blame for the lackluster soundtrack. What's worse are the ridiculous people who cast aspersions on Alan Menken because of this film, when the blame should be laid at the directors' doorstep.

I would say the film itself could overall be improved if they had just left Menken/Slater to do their jobs. I'm just glad they didn't direct Frozen, otherwise "Let It Go" and "Do You Want to Build a Snow Man?" probably never would've happened. What losers. I hope their next film directing bombs. (And not just because of the part they played in Menken's treatment at the studio, but also because Tangled is the worst of all Disney's new films since TP&TF was released, imo.)

[disneyprincess11]

I really hope Nathan Greno gives the Lopezes (it's pretty clear from that Disney World video that they were talking about Giants)

Concerning the video in question... Did they even mention it was something specifically for Disney? It could be an unrelated Broadway musical for all we know about. I really don't want to see the Lopezes providing songs for another Disney fairy tale movie; there are tons of talented Broadway composers/songwriters around, why not get one of them instead? Or, for that matter, get Alan Menken to be the composer again?

I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see Tim Minchin write the songs for a Rumplestilken movie. (Look "School Song" from Matilda up)

The Lopezes said that their kids are the test audience of a 2016 project, just like how they were the audience for Frozen. And I can't imagine them bring up a non-Disney project at a Disney World interview. And seeing how the music for Frozen is adored by many kids and judging their huge success with Frozen, I'm going to assume that it's Giants.

[Atlantica]

I feel like they wouldn't want to damage the Elsa brand, so thre isnt any way she's going to be the villain....would be the same as making Ariel the one who tricked Ursula or something crazy, Disney just wouldn't do it.

[estefan]

What losers. I hope their next film directing bombs.

Don't you think that's a tad harsh? Besides, if it did bomb, it's the animators who are more likely to be affected than the directors.

[Atlantica]

Tangled was a vast hit though, so doubt it would flop, as they obviously know how to make a brilliant film.

Just can't quite deal with their treatment of Menken ….

[Old Fish Tale]

And so was 'Bolt'. They're good storytellers.

[MovieMan995]

A Tangled set explicitly in Russia sounds more interesting than the pseudo-European setting they eventually went with, although I do agree that the composer shouldn't set the agenda and concentrate on telling the existing story through music instead. It kind of depends on what extent is the collaboration between the director, writer(s), and composers.

[ce1ticmoon]

Exactly. Filmmaking is a collaborative medium, with directors at the helm (and often times meddling and overrides from executives). Some people are acting like the directors of the other films have never had any input or a degree of control over how the songs are written or what songs make it into the final film. Byron and Greno may have been more adamant and rigid than other directors about sticking to what they wanted, and sure, it's possible that the film is weaker for it. But then again, it could have been weaker had they just let everyone run around loose and do what they wanted. They have the responsibility to direct the project. And different directors have different directing styles; in general, you can't really say one way will yield better results than another.

As for the songs in Tangled, I think they can be described as "low-key"--certainly, not "bad" or "lackluster"--and that seems to be what the directors wanted. Again, it's not my favorite songtrack of the bunch, but it isn't exactly near the bottom either. Now, I'm not saying I wouldn't have liked to see/hear the Flynn number or the musical opening, for example. Because, personally, I think those sound like great ideas. But I don't really fault the directors for sticking to their vision. On the one hand, perhaps it could have been a better film if they had incorporated more of Menken's ideas, but on the other, it's possible that their vision could have become muddled or diluted. We really can't say much about a version of a film that didn't come to pass.

Of the three Lasster-era musical fairytales, I find Tangled to be by far the most tight and cohesive, and thus the most compelling in terms of storytelling. I do find the songs to be the weakest of the three films (though not by that much), so I suppose it could be argued that it's the weakest in terms of being a musical. But then again, do any of them (and any other musical Disney film) succeed as a full-blown musical? I'm not really sure about that. And I'm not sure that's what any of them are necessarily aiming to be.

I do think that some of Menken's treatment has been unfortunate, and I'm not at all a huge fan of Lasseter's management style, but again, I can't fault the directors much here. I think the fact that they stuck to their vision yielded great results overall.