Beauty and the Beast Discussion

[Disney Duster]

But not all executive producers give a character their soul.

[blackcauldron85]

Here's an example of how Howard added to the film beyond lyrics (sorry, was pressed for time when I posted last but should have posted more!):

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/20 ... menken/amp

Bill Condon, director of 2017’s Beauty and the Beast, was quick to illuminate how Ashman’s illness informed so many of the hits we know by heart, in an interview with Attitude: It was his idea, not only to make it into a musical but also to make Beast one of the two central characters. Until then, it had mostly been Belle’s story that they had been telling. Specifically for him, it was a metaphor for AIDS. He was cursed, and this curse had brought sorrow on all those people who loved him, and maybe there was a chance for a miracle—and a way for the curse to be lifted. It was a very concrete thing that he was doing.

In the documentary, Ashman’s sister, Sarah Gillespie, doesn’t exactly agree with that assessment—but Menken believes the truth lies somewhere in the middle. “The parallels that people see, and I see them—God, they’re remarkable to see,” Menken agreed. “But I don’t think he did it consciously. It just wasn’t like him. He was so all about the musical, and the story line, and serving the characters, and serving the story arc, and that was it. But boy, the subtext is there, clearly.” Speaking to Den of Geek in 2010, Hahn said that the pitchforks-and-torches song “Kill the Beast” was a metaphor for Ashman “dealing with a debilitating disease, in an era when it was stigmatized. And so, there were so many of those underpinnings to the movie that people may not have seen.”

[Disney Duster]

Thanks Amy! Oh, so he made the Beast more a character, that is like giving him a soul. Interesting people have different opinions on whether or not he used his disesse for the film though.

[JeanGreyForever]

The line I usually hear referring to Howard Ashman is that he gave a mermaid her voice, a beast his soul, and a genie his freedom. I've heard he was supposed to work on Pocahontas as well so I wonder how that film would have been like with him at the helm.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, I didn't know all that.

[Disney Duster]

I just realized when looking at pictures from the Beauty and the Beast storybook, some people besides Belle and the Beast wear blue! Now, I actually never thought it was wise for only two characters in a whole film to ever wear blue, as blue is too good a color, but I just assumed the fact that only those two characters had that color from what I had heard and read since forever. I know that their is blue in Maurice, Chip, and the guests at the ending of the film, and even Gaston, the villain of all things, wears it when killing the Beast, of all things!

Also, when I was a kid, I kind of felt like when Belle said, "It is you!" to the Prince, it was her recognizing him from the painting. I felt like she was really falling for the hot new guy in front of her. Of course now it's more meaningful knowing that the guy before her is the same one she's been falling for the whole movie. I mean, I knew the Prince used to be the Beast, having seen him transform right before my very eyes, it's just it seemed like he turned into a new guy in a way.

[JeanGreyForever]

Which storybook is this? Also is it possible that in the storybook other characters were wearing blue but not in the actual movie? I can't remember any other characters wearing blue or not prominently anyway.

That's interesting that you took Belle's reaction to the prince's transformation into her recognizing him from the portrait. I never saw it that way but I'm surprised that more people didn't assume the same. She certainly seems quite taken with the portrait and I wouldn't be surprised if she would have been able to figure out the connection between the Beast and the Prince if she hadn't been distracted by the rose glowing. In fact I think that magically that was meant to happen to keep Belle from learning about the curse because her realizing that the Beast was once a prince but taint the love she has for him. At least in terms of the fact that it would alter her perception of him and not make her love him for who he is so much as who he was.

[Disney Duster]

It's the newest Disney storybook(s) actually. You know, with the shaded and lighted illustrations done to every hand-drawn princess film? You can find it and read through a brief version of it on the Disney Princess web site and see Gaston with his blue cape and people in blue at the end.

I never thought the rose might be doing that so Belle didn't figure it out and not fall in love with the Beast the right way! Cool idea! But actually when I was little I thought Belle did figure it out from the painting before the curse was lifted. I don't think she did as an adult but I think she almost did.

[JeanGreyForever]

Oh ok, I know which one you are talking about. I quite look those storybooks although I never cared for the BATB one because I didn't like that it used the Blu-Ray colors. I know Gaston has a navy blue cape at the end of the film but I don't remember the villagers from the mob in blue.

I definitely think Belle was shrewd enough that she would have been able to figure out the identity of the prince in the portrait had she been given the time and not been distracted. In fact, I can't remember for sure, but I think I also as a kid assumed that she had some idea based on what little she saw in the West Wing. This is also why I'm not a fan of how the enchanted objects flat out tell Belle about the curse in the live-action film. I can see why people complained that no one ever tells her and thus why the live-action film felt the need to "fix" this but it just seemed unnatural to me.

[Disney Duster]

I don't know if the mob people have blue. I hope I remember to look next time I watch the film.

Yes, Belle could have figured out the Beast used to be a Prince. Actually what I think was most dumb about the curse in the live-action film was the enchanted objects being cursed to die for heaven's sake. But even though Belle could very easily figure out the Beast used to be a man, that wouldn't ruin the love story as she wouldn't necessarily know he was handsome.

[JeanGreyForever]

It's true that Belle hearing that the Beast used to be a man wouldn't necessarily mean that he would be handsome, but she'd probably realize then that all the torn portraits depicted him and that may taint her view of him then and invalidate the whole purpose of the curse. In the original fairy tale, she falls in love with the prince when she meets him in her dreams and she is constantly searching for his portraits around the castle, although ultimately she decides that she has come to love the Beast as well and she cannot break her loyalty to him, even though she loved the prince.

[Disney Duster]

I forgot to say, I, too, really love the new Disney Princess storybooks. The illustrations are awesome.

You are right about Belle looking for the Beast's former form portraits, and that's cool about the original fairy tale.

[JeanGreyForever]

I forgot to say, I, too, really love the new Disney Princess storybooks. The illustrations are awesome.

You are right about Belle looking for the Beast's former form portraits, and that's cool about the original fairy tale.

Speaking of which, one of my favorite Beauty and the Beast storybooks is this one here.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DbQAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg

It's part of the Illustrated Classics line from the mid-90s. The illustrations are gorgeous and the storybook isn't a brief one but one that actually goes through the movies and gives you a feel for what the characters are thinking. It may sound silly to say, but I really get a magical feel off of this series of books. The BATB one in particular has these gorgeous pink roses on each page while the Aladdin one has doves and a magic carpet border.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, yeah I know that series! Did you know that very BatB book was Disney's first book bestseller? I have Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, and The Little Mermaid in the series. I never read all of any of the books, just my favorite parts. Someday I'll read them completely, I hope. I remember reading that when Ariel saw Sebastian on the plate at dinner with Eric and Grimsby, it said, "If Ariel had her voice, she would have screamed!" I laughed. It's something you could only get from a book!

[JeanGreyForever]

I had no idea that Disney's first bookseller was that very same BATB one. That's incredible to hear but I'm not even surprised because of the quality of the book. I wonder if the others in the line sold as well or nearly as well. I really want to get the others in the line, like the ones you mentioned, because I only have BATB and Aladdin right now. I think my local bookshop has Pinocchio, Bambi, Lady and the Tramp, Pocahontas, and The Hunchback of Notre Dame though, so I'll have to pick some of those up one day.

Lol, that Ariel line is hilarious. That's the kind of insight I love when reading these books, the type of things you couldn't get in the original movie.

[Disney Duster]

Yeah, what you said about that line, exactly!

I actually think the reason the BatB book was a bestseller was because BatB was such a big hit. I think the book came out just around the time the movie did...?

[JeanGreyForever]

That would make sense about why the BATB book was such a hit. It certainly deserved to be.

[Disney Duster]

A Glamour fashion historian gives (mostly correct) info on the historical accuracy of Belle's two main dresses!

Fashion Expert Fact Checks Belle from Beauty and the Beast's Costumes | Glamour

[DisneyFan97]

Thanks to rights issues when the stage version of Beauty and The Beast was set up in Sweden. New swedish lyrics had to be written for all the songs i imagine that must have been quite jarring !

Also Sewden's most prolific voice actor who has voiced characters in about 20 Disney movies not counting Pixar movies and DTV sequels and has done nothing outside voice acting and sound things in dubbing except his musical and avunne Q played Le Fou.

I some imes thinks of him as the voice of my childhood. But that might not be acuarrte beacuse never linked the voice he did.

He started out as a sound techian at the studio that dubb Disney movies for swedish and got a chance do a voice one day. Now he has been in everthing from Mdagaskar to Coco to The Simpsons Movie.

His crowning achievement is voicing Mickey Mouse for over 20 years in everything !

[JeanGreyForever]

I was looking through the Charles Solomon Making of book for this film and one of the original scripts caught my eye because of how wacky it sounds. I briefly mentioned it once before in the Disney Books thread but I thought I'd post the full synopsis here for anyone who hasn't seen it before. Let's just say I'm very thankful that this wasn't the final draft and that Disney basically chucked everything out from this script.