Disney made a huge mistake if you ask me. The sequel on Pocahontas destroys the first movie completely! In the sequel she chooses another man and not John Smith! How weird is that? weren't they suppose to be soul bound?
It just puts the first Pocahontas in a whole different light! It seems John does not love Pocahontas at all in the sequel and there relationship is ruined. So was the love they first felt for one another fake? Was it just hormones?
Okay I have to chill, im so flussterd by this ending that im going to drink a cup of tea to think it over.
*changed the spelling mistakes*
Pocahontas and Smith - No true love?
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The Merman
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Pocahontas and Smith - No true love?
Last edited by The Merman on Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Caballero Girl
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Mr. Toad
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Merman - Caballero girl is correct. Outside of the Rescuers down Under no sequel actually exists(at least in my mind)
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The Merman
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Haha you are right that it is better to pretend there are no sequels at all. But still though I liked the sequel of Mulan, but the one from Pocahontas was just horrible and ridiculous! Bad Disney! Bad Disney!
Last edited by The Merman on Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jwa1107
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Re: Pocahontas and Smith - No treu love?
the real Pocahontas DID marry another manThe Merman wrote:Disney made a huge mistake if you ask me. The sequal on Pocahontas destroyes the first movie completely! In the sequal she choses another man and not John Smith! How weird is that? werent they suppose to be soul bound?
It just puts the first Pocahontas in a whole different light! It seems John does not love Pocahontas at all in the sequal and there relationship is ruined. So was the love they first felt for one another fake? Was it just hormones?
Okay I have to chill, im so flussterd by this ending that im going to drink a cup of thea to think it over.
when Disney decided to make a movie based on a real person they chose to at least be somewhat true to reality in the sequel...
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The Merman
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They went off track from real reality with the first one, why not with the sequel? This just destroys the reality of the relationship that Poca and John build in the first movie. And that relationship is what the movie was all about!
Last edited by The Merman on Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I look at the sequel somewhat differently. To me the sequel tells a more truthful story about two people who once loved each other but distance and time have caused that love to grow cold. Not extinguished but reality sets in and Pocahontas has moved on thinking that John Smith was dead. Smith must sacrifice his feelings for Pocahontas when he realizes that she truly loves John Rolfe. Historically she does not marry John Smith but marries Rolfe and it would not have been right for Disney to have re-written history and romanticized the story for the sake of what the public thinks should have happened.
Personally I enjoy the sequel OK. It's certainly not as well animated as the original but for a direct to DVD sequel it is certainly better than most of the Disney sequels.
Kevin
Personally I enjoy the sequel OK. It's certainly not as well animated as the original but for a direct to DVD sequel it is certainly better than most of the Disney sequels.
Kevin
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ichabod
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So the sequel which followed reality, didn't keep the reality of the first? Even though you like the original because it didn't keep to reality and the relationship from a film which didn't follow reality had more reality than a film which more closely mirrored reality?The Merman wrote:They went off track from real reality with the first one, why not with the sequal? This just destroys the reality of the relationship that Poca and John build in the first movie. And that relationship is what the movie was all about!
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The Merman
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Say what?
No my point is that I thought that the relationship in the first movie was the main story of the movie. If they had followed more of reality it could have been an even better film than Disney produced. But they did not and chose to base the whole movie about an unbreakable bond between two people.
But why all of the sudden did they make a sequel so different from the prequel? Suddenly there bond was not so strong. Because they went this road it destroyed the path that Disney had taken with the prequel and there for making it less enjoyable.
No my point is that I thought that the relationship in the first movie was the main story of the movie. If they had followed more of reality it could have been an even better film than Disney produced. But they did not and chose to base the whole movie about an unbreakable bond between two people.
But why all of the sudden did they make a sequel so different from the prequel? Suddenly there bond was not so strong. Because they went this road it destroyed the path that Disney had taken with the prequel and there for making it less enjoyable.
Last edited by The Merman on Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My sister and I both agree that John Rolfe was the better choice than Smith. True the whole basis of the first Pocahontas movie was her relationship with John Smith but it wasnt really a romantic relationship in reality and the way that Disney set up the romance in their film is totally irrational and a bit annoying at time. In Pocahontas II, the relationship with John Rolfe is based on a more rational level. I like how this sequel was unique from other Disney sequels in that Pocahontas had to make some surprising choices.
To better explain. Here's how it seems that the Pocahontas and John Smith relationship was set up.
First Pocahontas was portrayed as a girl who was limited in matter of choices, such as having to take part in an arranged marriage thus she takes the rebelious route (like any othe Disney Princess would) and falls for the closest hot guy that she knew would be unnapproved. I think the same goes for Smith in a way.
In the sequel, Pocahontas has more freedom and is on a quest. She encounters different personalities and is not doing anything out of rebellion but out of loyalty to protect her people. In a way I think Pochontas was better portrayed in the sequel. I though Rolfe had better personality than Smith who had like...nothin.
To better explain. Here's how it seems that the Pocahontas and John Smith relationship was set up.
First Pocahontas was portrayed as a girl who was limited in matter of choices, such as having to take part in an arranged marriage thus she takes the rebelious route (like any othe Disney Princess would) and falls for the closest hot guy that she knew would be unnapproved. I think the same goes for Smith in a way.
In the sequel, Pocahontas has more freedom and is on a quest. She encounters different personalities and is not doing anything out of rebellion but out of loyalty to protect her people. In a way I think Pochontas was better portrayed in the sequel. I though Rolfe had better personality than Smith who had like...nothin.
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The Merman
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I agree that Rolfe had a better personality. But it just makes me think Smith in the first movie was just looking for something to "bang" so to say.
I was just a bit shocked by the choice of Disney to change her man. I mean Disney never does this and it contradicts an earlier film they spend a long time making.
Now that I had my tea, I had time to think it over. Rolfe was the better choice instead of bootie calling Smith. Smith probably has like tons of kids around the world that he dont know about, he looks like a player.
I was just a bit shocked by the choice of Disney to change her man. I mean Disney never does this and it contradicts an earlier film they spend a long time making.
Now that I had my tea, I had time to think it over. Rolfe was the better choice instead of bootie calling Smith. Smith probably has like tons of kids around the world that he dont know about, he looks like a player.
The Real John Smith was probably in his 30s or 40s when he went to Jamestown. The Real Pocahontas? Probably 12 or 13.
The Real Pocahontas married John Rolfe. So, most of the sequel were true to her real story.
The Real Pocahontas married John Rolfe. So, most of the sequel were true to her real story.
Disney Channel died when they stopped airing movies with Haley mills (Parent Trap and Pollyanna) and fun adventure movies like Swiss Family Robinson. R.I.P. the REAL Disney Channel. Date of Death: When the shows became teenie bopperish.
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slave2moonlight
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The problem here is that you are viewing the relationship in the first film as something like the romances between the other Disney princesses and their princes. Pocahontas was always more realistic than the typical Disney films. It's not a fairytale, and while it takes liberties, it sticks to a lot of truths. They make the choices of which they will stick to to make a great story. The only real fantasy of that film was Grandmother Willow, and even that was not a typical Disney "magical" thing, it was more spiritual. Anyway, in keeping with the idea that Pocahontas's relationship with John Smith might eventually end is just another realistic element of the story. In other words, we're not dealing with a fairytale here. Even if it takes liberties, it attempts to be more real than the typical Disney animated film, and in real-life, it's not unusual for a couple that believes they are in love to eventually break up. It happens all the time.
Now, if you ask me, that doesn't happen when two people are REALLY "in love," but it doesn't mean they didn't love each other on another level. Of course, it usually is a physical thing, but sometimes there's a real love there, but it's not strong enough for a romantic relationship, or it's just not that "kind" of love. To me, even with the much needed addition of "If I Never Knew You," Pocahontas and Smith don't really seem to be in true "romantic" love. They love each other as friends and have a physical attraction, they would like to take it to the next romantic level, but they never really get the opportunity. It was a good start for a romantic relationship, one far more real than the ones we see in Disney fairytales (which feature "love at first sight," which in reality is just lust), but in the long run it probably wouldn't have worked out anyway because of Smith's inability to "settle down," and other aspects of his personality. So, with the first film and the relationship with Smith, we really see two people who are attracted to each other for both physical reasons and the reason that they are curious about each other, and who come to love each other as friends because they teach each other so much. They're a pair who want to become romantically involved, but even in the first film we see that they don't end up together, and any thought that they do is just an assumption. So, the sequel does a pretty good job of following through on that without betraying the truth of who Pocahontas really ended up with. I have always said that in some ways I find the sequel even more interesting than the first, though the animation obviously isn't as good. I have to watch it again though, because it's been some time since I've put it on. And I have to admit that my opinion of the first film has gone up greatly since they added "If I Never Knew You." But, again, they loved each other more because of how they opened each other's eyes to the possibilities of the world than for more romantic reasons. Even the song suggests that.
And Disney has had its share of great sequels. Lion King 2, Rescuers Down Under, Bambi 2, Extremely Goofy Movie, Beauty and the Beast Enchanted Christmas, Toy Story 2, Aladdin and the King of Thieves, Twice Upon a Christmas... Some of the others aren't terrible either. Of course, many do sacrifice animation quality, but not all.
Now, if you ask me, that doesn't happen when two people are REALLY "in love," but it doesn't mean they didn't love each other on another level. Of course, it usually is a physical thing, but sometimes there's a real love there, but it's not strong enough for a romantic relationship, or it's just not that "kind" of love. To me, even with the much needed addition of "If I Never Knew You," Pocahontas and Smith don't really seem to be in true "romantic" love. They love each other as friends and have a physical attraction, they would like to take it to the next romantic level, but they never really get the opportunity. It was a good start for a romantic relationship, one far more real than the ones we see in Disney fairytales (which feature "love at first sight," which in reality is just lust), but in the long run it probably wouldn't have worked out anyway because of Smith's inability to "settle down," and other aspects of his personality. So, with the first film and the relationship with Smith, we really see two people who are attracted to each other for both physical reasons and the reason that they are curious about each other, and who come to love each other as friends because they teach each other so much. They're a pair who want to become romantically involved, but even in the first film we see that they don't end up together, and any thought that they do is just an assumption. So, the sequel does a pretty good job of following through on that without betraying the truth of who Pocahontas really ended up with. I have always said that in some ways I find the sequel even more interesting than the first, though the animation obviously isn't as good. I have to watch it again though, because it's been some time since I've put it on. And I have to admit that my opinion of the first film has gone up greatly since they added "If I Never Knew You." But, again, they loved each other more because of how they opened each other's eyes to the possibilities of the world than for more romantic reasons. Even the song suggests that.
And Disney has had its share of great sequels. Lion King 2, Rescuers Down Under, Bambi 2, Extremely Goofy Movie, Beauty and the Beast Enchanted Christmas, Toy Story 2, Aladdin and the King of Thieves, Twice Upon a Christmas... Some of the others aren't terrible either. Of course, many do sacrifice animation quality, but not all.
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The Merman
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If anything, the sequal was simply true to life in general.
People change. Our emotions continually evolve. However, Pocohonatas' love for Smith was something special. He was her first love. But you have to remember the time she lived at. He was SHOT in the chest no less....Those kind of injuries weren't normally survivable back then. Seeing Kokoum die from a similar injury, she likely thought he died. Reality sets in. The fact he was still alive was a miracle in itself. With every ship, she probably waited for news of him, and heard none. Or perhaps rumors or even stated "facts" he was dead. If it wasn't for Rolfe, she probably would have settled down with someone in her tribe or maybe some other settler.
So really, the sequel wasn't just following the true story more closely...it was also following real life more closely. You could have your first love in high school, and he/she moves away. You fall in love again eventually, and he/she shows back up. You are faced with a choice. Who do you choose? John Smith and Pocohontas had not only lived apart, they grew apart. It doesn't mean they don't love eachother as much as they did when they first kissed, it just means, they have different aspirations in life. You have to make a choice. And sometimes, the right choice, is the most difficult. The life Smith wanted her to lead...she didn't want that life.
People change. Our emotions continually evolve. However, Pocohonatas' love for Smith was something special. He was her first love. But you have to remember the time she lived at. He was SHOT in the chest no less....Those kind of injuries weren't normally survivable back then. Seeing Kokoum die from a similar injury, she likely thought he died. Reality sets in. The fact he was still alive was a miracle in itself. With every ship, she probably waited for news of him, and heard none. Or perhaps rumors or even stated "facts" he was dead. If it wasn't for Rolfe, she probably would have settled down with someone in her tribe or maybe some other settler.
So really, the sequel wasn't just following the true story more closely...it was also following real life more closely. You could have your first love in high school, and he/she moves away. You fall in love again eventually, and he/she shows back up. You are faced with a choice. Who do you choose? John Smith and Pocohontas had not only lived apart, they grew apart. It doesn't mean they don't love eachother as much as they did when they first kissed, it just means, they have different aspirations in life. You have to make a choice. And sometimes, the right choice, is the most difficult. The life Smith wanted her to lead...she didn't want that life.
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Escapay
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If anyone has ever seen Elia Kazan's Splendor in the Grass, it's perhaps the greatest love story...that doesn't work out in the end. Similarly, Pocahontas II follows that same structure, in that it takes a couple that did indeed love each other (in the first movie, not in real life), and shows how life has changed them, and their love no longer holds true.
Escapay
Escapay
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slave2moonlight
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The movie was more than anything about getting past prejudice, discovering other cultures, seeing what more is out there to learn about. The relationship is what allowed them to do that. It's what opened their eyes. However, it wasn't played up to be overly romantic. If you watch the film, it's not as much about a lovey-dovey relationship as it is about a strong friendship with a physical attraction, which is usually what relationships are until we truly fall in love. I don't buy into that idea that you can have several relationships and have truly been in love in every one of them. Or, to put it better, I believe there is such a thing as lasting love that is strong enough not to be altered by time and separation, and that's the only love I am willing to call "true love." I never felt that Pocahontas and Smith were this "destined to be together" couple, even before knowing the true story, and, after all, they didn't end up together even in the first film. That should have been enough to settle matters. The fact that she was ready to sacrifice herself for him doesn't mean they were in love. Some people would do that for a true friend. Anyway, I doubt she believed her father was going to kill her. I suppose it was possible in the harshness of real-life, but not in a Disney movie, ha.The Merman wrote:The whole relationship is what the movie was about! They did built them up as this huge romantic love! I mean she was ready to die for him! I mean I would not die and defy my father( who is the chief with mighty powers)!